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 Replies: 24 / Views: 3,770 |
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New Member
United States
3 Posts |
I've been a very amateurish coin collector since I was a kid, but only recently have I put any real scrutiny or research into the trade. Probably because now I'm putting real money into it, and I don't wish to find out decades later that I was making false assumptions. It took quite a while to gain a true understanding of all the grades, coin acronyms and more recent buzzwords like First Strike, etc. There is much misinformation and tomfoolery afoot, but I finally feel like I'm on top of it. Time for a test... Enter my recent purchase of a PCGS MS70 2010 Silver Eagle. This coin was purchased off ebay (yeah, I know). When I first got it, it sure did look perfect to me. I checked out the PCGS number, and it was exactly as described. This eagle was the first I'd ever owned. I have several morgans, but the point is that I'd never scrutinized a silver eagle before. Later, I purchased five 2010 Silver Eagles from a trusted coin dealer. Then I started examining these coins for a possible 70, but I'm noticing flaws here and there on most of them (as expected). I grabbed my 70 for comparison all ready to be pleased with it, but then low and behold I see two flaws. I hadn't seen them before because of the plastic that was in the way. Two tiny inclusions on the obverse that, when shifted in the light, sparkle an opposing shiny color. It suggests two tiny nicks or scratches. No bigger than a grain of sand, but I don't need a loop to see them. I could see similar nicks on some of the 5 in various places, so I know they are not intentional. The word "perfect" is associated with a 70 grade. Of course, nothing's really perfect. But I don't expect to be able to see flaws with the naked eye on a 70 coin. It's my plan to purchase a roll of eagles and then ship some off to PCGS for 70 grading and resale, putting a dent in the overall cost of the eagle purchase. But now that I see that my 70 has flaws, I cant tell what should qualify as a worthy coin to send to them. One of the five commons that I purchased does indeed look perfect, even under a loop. But who knows, right?! 1/ So am I picking nits? Or is this another example of why you shouldn't buy off of ebay? 2/ But ebay or no, why would PCGS put a 70 on an imperfect coin? Yes, it could be a mistake on the grader's part, but it seems gross to me. Which calls into question the entire validity of PCGS as a grader. But according to my research, they are arguably the most reliable and respected grader. 3/ I've developed a concern over who I should purchase my roll of eagles from. I noticed that APMEX sells rolls of PCGS sealed eagles. But why should I be trusting PCGS? Any recommendations on a quality vendor? 4/ And finally, can someone point me to a doc that details how best to grade coins before sending them off? Hopefully with some detail specific to the silver eagle. I'm sorry for nubile questions. It's just that I'm getting started in this thing, and my little example test of buying a perfect coin to compare to a common one did not help me to understand how to grade. At this point I have invested very little, so I would be most grateful for some veteran advice to put me on the right track from the beginning. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1534 Posts |
According to what you said, it seems to me that you cracked the MS-70 Eagle out of the PCGS slab. That could have caused the two nicks you mentioned. Also, that is why buying any MS-70 coins is generally a waste of time, unless you have a registry set. Most MS-69's out there look like MS-70's, and that can lead to mistakes in grading. You do not need a PCGS sealed Silver Eagle roll, as they have not graded the entire roll and can be found cheaper elsewhere.
Also, it is relatively hard to find a 70, so your investment is not worth your time. The submission fees and the chance that the Eagles could come back 69 makes it a waste of your time. There is no guaranteed way to grade coins, experience and practice are your best teachers in the majority of cases.
And welcome to the forum!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4000 Posts |
You have the same questions I have. I, too, bought some MS70's expecting perfection and was very disappointed with nicks and I even have a few with Machine Doubling! What! But, there they are for the whole world to see. I compare my 69's and they look every bit as good or better, and don't have Machine Doubling. So, although new to collecting, I can't answer your questions but I can tell you that for my money it's 69's. I can't tell the difference. |
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New Member
 United States
3 Posts |
Thanks Wheatguy.
I didn't remove the 70. Can't imagine doing that! I just examined it very closely (in good lighting) after getting examples of the types of flaws I might expect to see. I then used a magnifying glass to be sure the dots weren't inclusions in the PCGS slab instead.
It sounds like you're saying that it's a crapshoot when you send a selection of coins that you can personally find no fault with. And from my understanding, they won't tell you why the coin didn't make 70. If that's true, then I'd be beating my head against a wall trying to understand the lunacy. I think I'd heard that 1 in 10 eagles submission turns out to be 70 grade. But I've read that many folks just send coins in bulk, leaving precious few with an eye for detail as scrutinizing as myself. I suppose the only way to know the answer to that is another field test.
If I simply must have a particular 70, then perhaps my best bet is to familiarize myself with the flaws that a particular coin typically has and then make a coin shop based purchased where I can examine the coin closely.
I need to read more on this registry set you speak of. I saw it on PCGS's website, but assumed that was for power collectors or some such thing.
Edited by Vanallen74
03/23/2010 7:12 pm
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Valued Member
United States
312 Posts |
MS-70 grade is highly overrated as far as I'm concerned. It's the difference between MS-69 selling for $25 - $60 and MS-70 being overpriced.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
I agree with wheatguy. Submitting them to PCGS to get 70's is a fool's errand...you have to get more than 1 MS70 for every 3 or 4 coin you submit to even think about breaking even. Highly doubt you would do that well. The only way I think it can work is to submit entire boxes of eagles and have a good deal set up with the grading company. The PCGS rolls at APMEX have been certified to be first strikes. They have not been graded. Don't know if that would necessarily improve the chances of coins getting a 70 grade. Really hard for me to imagine that any coins at all can survive living in a roll and end up by a MS70 coin. Without seeing your coin, can't comment on why it would have marks. Edited by steve199
03/23/2010 7:20 pm
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Moderator
 United States
16677 Posts |
I recently viewed a shared order on PCGS of 20 silver eagles. Only one received the MS70 designation. All others were MS69. It's easy for PCGS to do this rather than study each one of these to death.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Pillar of the Community
United States
531 Posts |
Vanallen74, I agree that chasing 70 grade coins can be an expensive process for coins that have very little difference in eye appeal when compaired to a 69. As you look a the PCGS Registry I would encourage you to look at the Collectors Society at NGC. Here is a link: http://coins.www.collectors-society...default.aspxThe NGC Registry will accept PCGS coins as well as NGC Happy collecting. |
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Valued Member
United States
312 Posts |
MS-69 is just as good looking as a MS-70, without the ridiculous price for it, much cheaper.
Edited by AMFCook
03/23/2010 7:38 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
It sounds like you're saying that it's a crapshoot when you send a selection of coins that you can personally find no fault with. Correct. In fact if you were to resubmit a previously graded 70, the odds are very good that it would NOT come back as a 70 again. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1231 Posts |
definition of "perfect coin" : Seller found someone willing to pay more money for a label that says 70 instead of 69 on a slab
I would agree with others, stick with 69's unless you are wanting a registry set.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
The only reasons I can see to chose a 70 over a 69 is if they are the same price or if you are trying to make a #1 registry set. The 69/70 debate would not even be a consideration if it wasn't for the TPG's creating these registry sets and the normal competition spirit we humans seem to be hard wired with. I have owned both and I can not tell a difference between the 69 or the 70 except for price. I think the T{G's just chose one out of every 100 they grade to give the 70 grade to keep the population down which in turn keeps the value up because there are less of them and each one trying to create that #1 set needs one in the highest grade possible which creates a demand for them in that grade |
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Valued Member
United States
312 Posts |
Bryan, you won't find a 69 and 70 at the same price.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I know but that would be one of the only reasons I could see buying it over a 69
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Valued Member
United States
112 Posts |
I'm still a newbe, and 2 months back completed my Morgan CC set: all 13 coins. I was happier than a pig in mud. I looked at it daily. On certain key-dates I had no choice but to go XF,etc..wanted them all in MS, but wasn't willing to sell my home to get them. We all have preferences when it comes to grades/MS's. Get what "YOU" like. Last month I checked out a registered set on NGC. It was like my Morgan CC set, but this guy had every one in a PF MS state, even several MS68's. I have never even held a CC MS68, let alone seen one, anywhere. Coin collecting is great, just wish I had some "DEEP-POCKETS", then I'd be in "MS-HEAVEN. POINT: we all buy what we want, and having money, makes a super difference.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
the highest Morgan I have ever seen was a MS-69PL could you imagine MS-69 on a 100 year old coin? I do have a few 66 and 67 coins but 69PL? come on! here is one of my MS-67 Morgans http://coins.www.collectors-society...eSetID=23484 . the 69Pl was a 1880-S and as far as I know it is the highest Morgan dollar ever graded by PCGS. here is a link to coinfacts showing PCGS has graded 1 at this level and 4 at 68Pl level http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/CoinDe...el=2&redir=t . If I remember correctly the 69Pl was on ebay and think the bidding was up close to $100,000.00 and reserve was never met I found pictures of it that I had posted quite a while ago   |
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Replies: 24 / Views: 3,770 |
Posted 03/23/2010 7:00 pm
