Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. 300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsVancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Awsome Article On Toning Coins And Detecting Them

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 11,290Next Topic  
Valued Member

Canada
168 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  09:39 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add laconic to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
While purusing ebay, I came across a few toned coins for sale that always demand a premium and it got me thinking if it was possible to artificially tone coins. I figured its a long (years) process of putting a coin in a window (which turned out to be one way)! I came across an excellent article on the history of toning and how to detect artificially toned coins.

http://rg.ancients.info/guide/toning.html

For those who do not have the time to read the whole thing, here are some hi-lights:

Numismatic metals tone in different ways.
toning on silver is most often caused by sulfur

The color of the toning on any coin is a factor of how advanced and thick the film of toning is. Early toning on silver coins is yellow, with the colors progressing to magenta (purplish red) to cyan (greenish blue) to black.

Artificial toning techniques:
such as baking a coin in an oven (alone or in a potato), blasting it with a blow torch, placing it in a covered bowl with crushed match heads (these coins smell!), blowing cigarette or cigar smoke on it, thumbing it with nose grease, or soaking or painting it with bleach, acid, or a sulfur-containing chemical.

How to Tell Artificial Toning on Coins, available for loan from the American Numismatic Association, Campbell says the following are AT tip-offs:

Circular toning spots resulting from the beading of the toning liquid that was used.
Colors that blend together out of sequence. With naturally toned coins, the progression is yellow then magenta (pinkish red) then cyan (blue-green). Toning that appears only on the tops of the lettering and devices and not in the coin's recesses.
Wild "circus" colors -- on 90 percent silver coins, for instance, army green, bright pumpkin orange, and robin-egg blue.

According to PCGS's book Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection, the following are other indications of artificial toning:

The toning floats on the surface of the coin rather than having depth and being bonded to the metal.
The toning occurs over hairlines or other marks.
The toning exhibits bright "crayon" colors.
The toning has a yellow-brown, smoky appearance, indicating it was caused by cigarette or cigar smoke.
-----------------------
I am going to take a couple of coins out of my pocket change and take some pictures. I am then going to put them in a potatao and bake them to see what happens. I'll post pictures of the before and after but it will probably be next week (out of potatos at the moment!)
Pillar of the Community
Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  10:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Potato baking a silver coin and it's effects depends somewhat on the silver content of the coin. Canadian coins at 80 per cent do not benefit well from potato baking and give a dull sickly appearance with a dark and dull gray/black contact toning that is uneven and easily spotted as unnatural.

90 per cent and up the silver is more reactive to sulphur based compounds of all types. You can enhance potato baking a silver coin by rubbing it with motor oil before you do it. Whatever effects you do get will be more even and you won't have hard, dried baked potato stuck to it.

Friends and I have replicated a lot of the coin doctor methods on scrap silver over the years so that we can be better at spotting "nonsense" coins. When I describe artificially aging or toning a coin I always leave out one critical step in my posts but I haven't with this baked potato thing since it's already so wide spread.

Won't look good though.
Pillar of the Community
Tim Stroud's Avatar
United States
2661 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  11:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tim Stroud to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Speaking of artificial toning check this out.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...=p2759.l1259
Pillar of the Community
Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  12:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Tim I'm afraid I don't even know enough about the composition of these to even guess at what was done. Nice job though.

I do know one guy who makes a POINT of buying AT rainbow coins because he feels that for every success there's a half dozen failures that get whizzed and dumped. He has a collection that looks like the Care Bear artists tripped on his carpet while they had their boxes of paint with them. It's an AT collection, not for the coins at all, just for the colours.
Pillar of the Community
Tim Stroud's Avatar
United States
2661 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tim Stroud to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well I always say collect what you like. That is really what makes a collecting hobby enjoyable. I myself am very picking when it comes to toning, I think it detracts from the coins appearance. But that is my opinion and you what folks say about opinions.
Pillar of the Community
fioti's Avatar
United States
4212 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  1:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fioti to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like someone puked Skittles on 'em. Here's another:

Awsome-Article-On-Toning-Coins-And-Detecting-Them
Valued Member
wontoo's Avatar
Canada
78 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wontoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"HANDLED ONLY WITH GLOVES THERE ARE NO CHEMICALS ON THIS COIN WHAT SO EVER. AN WAS HEAT TONED."......from the item description. Are they saying it was heat toned?
Pillar of the Community
Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  7:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah it was toned using an oxy acetylene torch, possibly oxy propane or oxy mapp gas.

Valued Member
Funny Money's Avatar
United States
424 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2010  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Funny Money to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
they held it with gloves while they heated it? yeeeouch!
Valued Member
wontoo's Avatar
Canada
78 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2010  01:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wontoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Time to get me a torch..... bought for 1 cent sold for $2.30.... my math might be off but is that a 22900% profit!!
Valued Member
Canada
168 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2010  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add laconic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I tried the baked potato last night with 7 coins of various compositions (copper, nickel, silver) and none of them produced even a hint of tarnish. In a way, thats a good thing because I hate any seller that cleans, plates or alters a coin in any way without mentioning it in the add. If its not easy to do, there should be less examples out there.
Pillar of the Community
Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2010  11:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@laconic, if you want to succeed with the bake potato method we talking about baking it for around 4-6 hours at 350ish. It will give you a dirty grey brackish toning on silver. Your potato should be dry and miserable when done. Wrap it in foil so the liquids don't evaporate too fast.

I recommend any collector experiment on melt silver coins to understand and see just how often these are artificially toned especially after being dipped. A good toning job will cover up a lot of these damaged coins to the casual observer and impulse purchaser. Impulse buys are the best friend of unscrupulous sellers.

Speaking on this topic... I'm seeing a lot of blast white highly circulated pre 20's silver coins on ALL the various online sales sources... it's unbelievable, why do these people do this? If your coin is looking like an F15 and there's not a spec of toning on your 90 year old coin anywhere, then someone has to ask what are the odds?
Valued Member
Canada
168 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2010  2:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add laconic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AH, thx Ugly. I only did about an hour so that would explain it. Just want something to use as a reference on what to avoid when looking online.
  Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 11,290Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.43 seconds to rattle this change. Forums