| Author |
 Replies: 62 / Views: 16,307 |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
693 Posts |
The twoonie is struck with 1 Rev die and 1 Obv die. The metals involved in the minting process cause a fusion of the core and outer on striking. The ONLY WAY that a core can rotate is if it is manipulated by a PERSON! Hence ICCS has made a HUGE error in Judgement by Grading this crap.....now the market ( ebay) will get flooded with home made error coins and unknowing people will buy them just like the mint screw up of the 2002 hockey joke....ICCS is not accountable and now not accurate either....IMO Edited by coinsrfun
04/20/2010 1:27 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
I agree with coins and zonad... this couldn't have happened at the mint.
however, does anyone know much about removing the cores? I am surprised that someone could have removed the core, rotated it, put it back in, and still have the coin maintain such a high grade.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1733 Posts |
Put the coin on dry ice and then touch the rim to a piece of red hot steel. If it doesn't fall out a poke with a rubber mallet will do it. I've left an important part of the *how* out that avoids scoring the coin on purpose but you get the idea.
Single die... that explains why I sometimes think the strikes look weak. It's a compromise because the of the metals I assume?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
693 Posts |
Removing and replacing the core is VERY EASY. This coin being in a holder is an outrage...brings up way too many questions......I am out of this thread....and any post about ICCS
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
Re: ICCS I received three coins back from them today. Two of these had previously been graded by ICCS (I bought them when I started collecting and didn't know anything about grading companies). 1953 25 Cent SS was PL64 Cameo... is now PL64 Heavy Cameo 1953 25 Cent NSS was PL64... is now MS64 (really annoyed with this) The other one I sent in was a 1936 quarter I bought on ebay for about $90 ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...0567763838). When I bought it, I thought it might be MS63, but pictures don't mean much. When I received it, I thought it was MS62/63. It came back MS64. Pretty happy here ($500 coin, based on trends, for $90). |
|
Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9866 Posts |
HHB,you asked whose mark I was refering to.We were discussing grading consistency.The standard was set by ICCS or CCCS the coins that I feel missed the mark are those that are not graded the same as similar coins.I'm not talking about sliders here but coins off by at least 5 points on uncirculated grades.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts |
DBM... What Standard? if ICCS always grades to an accepted and recognized standard, the WHY are the grades so different. Please do not forget: that is always is ONLY their opinion. I guess what I really want to say is this: there is NO standard as such. There is no recognized criteria or base. there are no norms that could be accepted guidelines. AND, I hate to say as I have numerous times before, this is exactly the reason why Basement slabbers can operate. if you receive a coin and you say to yourself: wow, this is 65, then for you it is a 65. your friend says it is a 65. HOWEVER upon receiving the coin back from a TPG, it is slabbed as a 62....in their opinion...even though you know better... in your opinion. the only way we can compare TPG's is by their own consistency with what they grade, NOT if they are grading what we expect or what we want them to grade. |
|
Valued Member
Canada
403 Posts |
Since this is a significantly aged thread, I'm bringing this discussion back to the forefront as I'd like to obtain some current feedback on this topic. I have a large number of coins that need to be certified (mainly for insurance purposes): some include errors & varieties which I would want noted on the certification, while others I would want hard-slabbed. I am conflicted about where to send them. I struggle with the seemingly oxy-moronic notion of sending Canadian coins to any US-based TPG (aside from the inconveniences and added costs of doing so); which just leaves ICCS and CCCS as the only available solutions. I understand ICCS to be highly respected among dealers as they provide more of a "technical" grading opinion (although ICCS doesn't provide any insight into the technical criterion they use to evaluate). However, their tunnel-vision approach to conducting their business and their atrocious customer service makes it exceptionally difficult for me to justify giving them any future business. I have also dealt with Louis from CCCS before (not on the CCCS side, but on his LCA arm), and he seemed to have a refreshing sense of customer service and I found him to be genuinely helpful. What I don't know is CCCS' methodology to grading, and how that differs or parallels to the grading methodologies deployed by ICCS, and the overall resulting impact of those methodologies on their respective grading opinions? And with that, I turn to the infinite wisdom of the community... |
|
Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5404 Posts |
For one I can say that Skips comment on ICCS and "their atrocious Customer service" is way off the mark in my opinion. I have used ICCS from the beginning, much to my satisfaction. It is indeed a working relationship that has made me a lot of money and gained me happy customers over the years. There is ONE thing in coin grading from all of the companies (PCGS, NGC,ANACS, ICCS, and CCCS), grade definition and creep has and will continue to happen as the market demands.
When one becomes an expert grader themselves (yes it is possible) they will always buy the coin and NOT the holder!
@Skip as to your error coins and such, ICCS does not certify most errors so CCCS hard holders would be a good fit. As to the rest it would be your choice .
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
403 Posts |
Thanks for the feedback Pacificoin. For the record, my comments re: ICCS customer service is from my own experience with them. Although, it is reasonable to assume ICCS may treat their higher volume customers with established dealer/grader relationships like yourself more favourably compared to collectors like me who submit on a very infrequent basis.
Notwithstanding, can you please elaborate on what you mean by "There is ONE thing in coin grading from all of the companies...grade definition and creep..."?
Thanks!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5404 Posts |
@Skip The way the coin market changes results in Market Grading, ie letting the market dictate the grade and value of coins (prevalent in the US coin market). What was once a technical EX F 45 with good eye appeal 25 years ago could easily be an AU 53 today. This is simplified of course as you could write a three volume tome on the subject.
Another way to look at things is this. When you see a coin you like ( regardless of what the plastic says) that is well struck and pretty and just grabs you, the chances are it will do the same to someone else when you go to sell it. Remember pretty coins are miniature works of art that appeal to our emotions just like a nice old painting .
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5404 Posts |
@ Skip one other thing, I would be extremely disappointed in ICCS if they treated me ( a dealer high volume submitter ) any differently than a collector submitting a few coins. I would expect high standards in all their transactions. Over the years I have been "hammered" and disagreed with some things ,but overall they continue to be the accepted standard in Canada.
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
403 Posts |
Thanks for the clarification Pacificoin, and I agree that good eye appeal is a market driver, but I also know that certified coins (especially by certain TPGs) also drive the market.
I am disappointed in the way I was treated by ICCS, but that certainly wouldn't be the first time a business didn't make me feel like I was a valued customer. I just tend to retain those experiences and never again reward such bad behaviour with more business. In this case, the alternate options are few and far between. But at the end of the day: just because a company may be recognized as industry-leading experts in their field, there's certainly no excuse for alienating ANY of the people who pay their bill.
|
|
New Member
16 Posts |
Hey everyone, just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
First of all, great information on this topic. Thank you.
Second, the issue I have with ICCS is no website at all, like come on! It's 2014 for god sake, the Internet is in and around 25 years old now. They may be stricter on the odd coin etc etc but for me as a collector I want someone accountable and be able to verify certification numbers easily without having to phone call in during specific hours. CCCS at least is accountable and you can easily verify certified coins right off their website.
I don't know about you but if I'm looking into a coin in person or online I want to verify it fairly quickly and it's not always the convient hours ICCS is open for business.
I find them both very comparable with one another but the lack of being able to access ICCS online is a huge disappointment and down side to me.
|
|
Moderator
Canada
10463 Posts |
You have to remember that ICCS adopts a very simple business model...
"If it is not broken, don't fix it"
They already have the market share of dealers and collectors in Canada, which makes them money. They are in the business of certifying coins, and part of the reason their prices are incredibly low ($6.50 per coin, when batches of 100 or more are submitted), is that they don't spent capital on web services or online database.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
Edited by SPP-Ottawa
10/19/2014 11:47 am
|
| |
Replies: 62 / Views: 16,307 |
First Page
Posted 04/20/2010 1:33 pm
