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Odd-Looking 1884-O Morgan: Just A Weak Strike?

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Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6394 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2010  6:29 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I would grade this 1884-O dollar AU based on the remaining luster. However, many details are quite weak which I know is fairly common for many New Orleans Morgan dollars. It doesn't however look like a typical weak strike. I wonder if the dies might also have been over-polished?
I remember reading that proof dies were sometimes polished to the point that flat areas were produced in the devices, causing the struck coins to have corresponding areas with mirror-like surface. My coin has luster deep in the crevices of Miss Liberty's hair (which would be the shallow spots on the dies) and some of the reverse letters look thin and delicate. Is this evidence of over-polished dies?
I'd appreciate any comments!

Odd-Looking-1884-O-Morgan:--Just-A-Weak-Strike?

Odd-Looking-1884-O-Morgan:--Just-A-Weak-Strike?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2010  09:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting. STATES immediately struck me as too delicate.

Overpolished Morgans show other details which your coin does not have. They start losing device details - tailfeathers, inside the wings, detached wreath leaves on the reverse; in front of the eye, and the lowest hair details near the initial on the obverse. If the polishing had reached the point where lettering was becoming thinner, one would think that at least a couple of the "usual" places would show it as well.

Look inside the mint mark for a possible O/O, and check the reeding for overlapping at 3:00 and 6:00 (from the obverse). Also look at the bottoms of the arrowheads for doubling, and the tops of the 1 and first 8. I initially thought about the coin's authenticity, and then noted the very far date and slightly canted 4. These are both relatively uncommon features, but present on a few 1884-O VAM's. It'd be quite the coincidence that the Chinese would end up with one of these as the sample for a counterfeit run.

The denticles are funny in places, as well. I suspect this was a die alignment issue, but authenticity is still in question. Is that a lamination on the reverse between the eagle's left wing and wreath?
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Jaobler's Avatar
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6394 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2010  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK Superdave, you numismatic inquisitor, here are some more photos of this coin. This is about the best I can do as far as detail shots. The weight of this coin is 26.6 grams, very close to the standard 26.73 grams.

Here's the date:
Odd-Looking-1884-O-Morgan:--Just-A-Weak-Strike?

Here's the mintmark. There does appear to be evidence of repunching in the center of the 'O'.
Odd-Looking-1884-O-Morgan:--Just-A-Weak-Strike?

Here are the arrows. Nothing jumps out at me as unusual here.
Odd-Looking-1884-O-Morgan:--Just-A-Weak-Strike?

I didn't see anything that looks like overlapping on the reeds. The reeding does appear somewhat weaker than what I see on other Morgans. The photos are poor, but for what it's worth here is the edge of the coin at the 3:00 position.
Odd-Looking-1884-O-Morgan:--Just-A-Weak-Strike?

I also have one more 1884-O with similar appearance. This one has a sharper strike. The weight is about a tenth of a gram less, at 26.5g.
Odd-Looking-1884-O-Morgan:--Just-A-Weak-Strike?

Odd-Looking-1884-O-Morgan:--Just-A-Weak-Strike?

I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
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Halfwitty's Avatar
United States
1523 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2010  11:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halfwitty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks O/O to me but I'm no expert.
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aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2010  11:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its an ugly coin LOL, I am in limbo on this one, even an VF coin with lots of wear doesn't have the over all apperance like this...however if the chineese are now casting vams.....well what can I say....I guess its just ugly....the uglyest MS 62 coin I ever saw
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2010  12:37 am  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When I see common-date, circulated Morgans, counterfeit doesn't come to mind unless they look really odd and this coin doesn't look really odd to me.

Looks like an average New Orleans strike, not good but much worse examples are everywhere. I'd grade it AU50 but it could go as high as 55 if someone was liberal and thought the strike was poor.
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chris12018's Avatar
United States
2130 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2010  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chris12018 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the ear is to flat due to wear. I have some of these and the ear is well defined.
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