1747 8-Reales - Counterfeit Or Genuine?

I've already purchased it... at $152.

I'd love to hear Swamperbob's opinion, as I would fight to get my hard-earned money back if this is a fake.

By the way, the weight is 27 grams... although only weighed on my digital postal scale which only shows full grams.

americusc Welcome Mike!

The weight of this coin, if original (with no edge filing), should be between 26.7 and 27.9 grams. Anything over 27.0 grams should cause SUSPICION but it will not by itself condemn the coin. You really need to purchase a scale that accurately weighs to 1/10th gram.

I would love to see larger photos of this coin - you can send them directly to me at (swamperbob22@aol.com). Please concentrate on focus. The very fine details are essential if we are to have any chance of certainty.

The date 1747 is unfortunately one of dates that has been copied by the Chinese recently. I owned one until about a month ago when I traded it for a forged cob. The Chinese used an original coin to make a transfer impression so the design itself is correct. No amount of design comparison will help with authentication. They also use 0.900 fine silver for the copies I have seen so SG is of no use in this case. The weight of many of these fakes is TOO HIGH. I have several that weigh 27.1 or 27.2 grams - yet the coin shows "wear". The wear is actually wear that was on the pattern coin used to make the die design. I also own examples with weights as low as 24.8 grams. So I can infer that quality control in planchet fabrication is poor.

What has to be reviewed in this case is the way this coin was made. The points of failure in a transfer image are, First - the fields - they usually have fine raised lines that do not belong. Second - the dies themselves are rarely properly ground so that thick centers are common. Third - the lettering and fine details are often retooled to "improve" features. Fourth - there are poor field to lettering transitions with surface lumps in protected areas of the die. Fifth - the edge design is rarely correct (but I note a steady improvement in methods here). Sixth - and finally for now - the corners of the coin (field to edge transition) are often rough and show errors that arise from the transfer process.

It is the fine details that give away these new fakes.

But you have a 1 in 4 chance of having a real one. I estimate that 25% of ebay Pillar Dollars are real. Did you buy it from an ANA dealer? What is his return policy? What does he accept as proof of forgery?

Americusc, would you mind sending me the same 4 high res photos? jfransch@yahoo.com

O.K. so whats the verdict? WOLF

Dont feel too bad americusc - I too purchase a 1758 chinese forgery off of ebay.

Many of us have purchased 8 Reales that are forgeries but with the help of the forum we are getting better at questioning coins we are interested in.

Swamperbob helped me to determine my 8 real was a fake and I returned it.

I hope you are able to get your money returned.

We all share the same experiences in getting fake Dos Mundos Americusc.
Lucky that we are, having this community forum with the help of Swamperbob and other pillar members
As these threads about pillar dollars continue to exist and our discussions, sharing of pictures etc... I know, time will come, counterfeits on 8 reales will be a joke to all of us who got ripped-off by these evil fake doers.
Now,what is more important for us is the fact that we enjoy being with the community - posting threads in this forum about counterfeits, afterall this is the essence of our hobby being as numismatists