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Weight Loss Due To Wear

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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2010  08:49 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
It seems that weight comes up as a criteria for identification of a forgery in virtually every case, yet few of us have actually studied wear rates of originals.

For some time, I have been doing just that because many collectors mistakenly think that a worn original dollar can lose several grams due to wear. I have had collectors and dealers argue with me that an 8R which weighs 24.5 grams is real JUST WORN.

The raised details on a coin are in reality not very high. That was done for a very important reason. The value of a silver or gold coin was contained in the amount of metal it contained. Wear which reduces weight of metal and thereby VALUE - HAD TO BE APPARENT. Coins were first and foremost a storage mechanism for value and a worn coin was worth less.

In the past few decades, we have all become use to Token coinage. Token coinage refers to coins with a face value that exceeds the intrinsic value of the metal they contain. When I began collecting that was not the case. Many of us lived through the silver transition which was caused by rising world silver values.

So coins were designed to show wear. The rule of thumb was that when the wear removed all the lettering - the coin was sub-standard and should be turned in.

I know that many beginning collectors get impressed by medals simply because of the great detail and high relief. More than one has wondered why can't they make money that impressive? The reason simply stated is - Medals do not circulate as money.

So I have located a perfect coin to prove my contention (I own a few others as well). The coin is posted on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...TRK:MEWAX:IT



Weight-Loss-Due-To-Wear



Weight-Loss-Due-To-Wear
It is an example of a worn original 8R from 1833. I wrote to the seller and asked for the weight - it weighs 25.9 grams. Standard weight is 27.07 grams {edited} so the total weight loss is only 1.17 grams (4.3% of the total weight). This coin has reached the point where a merchant would discount the value or a bank would retire the coin and send it to the mint for reclamation.

So the next time you are offered a nice VF dollar coin that weighs only 95% of what it should, think of this coin, because the coin you are being offered is most likely a forgery.
Edited by swamperbob
06/13/2010 1:07 pm
Valued Member
Philippines
80 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2010  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fireandice556 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good enlightenment, SwamperBob.

Reviewing my old notes, I always thought that the ("half-pound") Marco de Castilla decreed by Philip V in 1728 was 230.0465 grams and that from 1728-1825, it was valued at 68 pieces per Marco.

-- i.e. that gave a weight equivalent of 27.064 grams for 8-reales.

Edited by fireandice556
06/08/2010 10:21 am
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swamperbob's Avatar
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5362 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2010  10:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes you arre correct 27.07 not 27.03 slip of the memory.
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jfransch's Avatar
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1801 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2010  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As a side note, the legal tolerance for 8 reales minted between 1728 and 1825 was maximum 27.2638grm and minimum 26.8646 grms. Ideal weight per decree was 27.0642 as pointed out by fireandice556.

Personally I become very concerned on coins under 26.4 that do not show significant wear.
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KenKat's Avatar
United States
4085 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2010  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KenKat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for a good post.

I had posted awhile back about my experience weighing my two Seated Liberty dollars and Trade dollar. Although two of the three were certified, I was still a little paranoid of the possibility of a counterfeit slab. They are VF/EF coins and for comparison, they were within 1% of the target weight and so I deemed them genuine.

It is interesting to see that even a very very worn coin is within 4% tolerance. As you mention, a decent circulated grade should show very little weight loss.

Best regards,
Ken
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Archraz's Avatar
United States
3499 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2010  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
swamperbob- awesome info! Thanks!
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Rayhaldo's Avatar
United States
74 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2010  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rayhaldo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great details on the weight of 8 Reales. Knowing the exact values is very important to me.

Thanks everyone.
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Pandesalapi's Avatar
Philippines
386 Posts
 Posted 06/13/2010  07:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pandesalapi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks guys for sharing the great info on 8 reales.
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