| Author |
 Replies: 17 / Views: 2,288 |
|
New Member
United States
4 Posts |
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
Something tells me that it's gold plated or gilt, and hence it might be a counterfeited Spanish / Portuguese coin?
I'm not an expert in this field so don't take my word for it.
|
|
Moderator
 Australia
16837 Posts |
It looks like a Spanish Peruvian gold 8 escudos dated 1736 (KM#38.2), but I'm fairly sure real gold wouldn't go dark-grey on the high points like that. I suspect gxseries is right, and it's a replica.
Real ones catalogue at $2500. Replicas are maybe a couple of bucks for the novelty value.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
My oldest coin is 1796
I think there is a small possibility it is gold
I am afraid a goldsmith touchstone on the side would be necessary but since that would have to touch deep the coin would be damaged
So weighing and measuring and density calculation by somebody having the weighing in water equipment would be more prudent since that would not damage the coin
|
|
Moderator
Australia
16837 Posts |
Just a weight would be a start - the "book weight" for this coin is 27.06 grams. If it's way under that, it's not gold.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
New Member
 United States
4 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I agree with the assessment that the first coin is a replica - a copy of a Spanish colonial 8 Escudo - the famous Gold Dubloon.
The second coin is out of focus but appears to also be a replica of an Islamic issue also gold. I know very little about Islamic issues but the edge of the coin looks very incorrect to me.
|
|
New Member
United States
4 Posts |
Tho in the picture the second coin looks gold its accually silver.
Edited by jaehova78
07/18/2006 10:32 pm
|
|
Moderator
Australia
16837 Posts |
For the second coin, it looks like an early Islamic silver dirhem; Abbasid dynasty (ruled 750-1242 AD) would be my guess, from the style of the writing. A clearer scan or pic might well tell us the mint-city and date of issue. Here's my example of an Abbasid silver dirham:   Year 192 Islamic Era (808 AD), Baghdad mint. It's about 21mm across, or "nickel-sized" for you non-metric folks [:p]. As an idea of value, I paid Aus$25 for mine back in 1999. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
That is an excellent example Sap. I really doubt that the above coin is genuine because that is relatively rare in the Islamic countries. Perhaps some weight tests will clear the doubt of its genunity.
|
|
Moderator
Australia
16837 Posts |
The trouble with testing by weight alone for coins like this is, of course, the scourge of "clipping". I suspect my example was clipped, whereas the one pictured by the OP looks less so; or perhaps it's simply older. Either way, these coins were a clipper's paradise; very thin, with nice wide empty margins and no reeding or other hi-tech edge protection. You'd really need to do a density test, like ageka posted above, to see if it's really silver.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Sap - regarding density testing there is one potential issue that needs to be addressed. Was the issue actually standardized? I only point this out because I fell into a similar trap recently on a token issue that I thought was treated as intrinsic. I ended up calling 14 rather rare original colonial Spanish coins counterfeits because they were 50% debased. Some actually had SGs in the 9.10 range which is far closer to copper at 8.96 than coin silver at 10.34. My opinion was reversed by Dan Sedwick. Talk about egg on your face. I had failed to determine the "allowable" assay range for the original coins. These 1R coins with a nominal face value of 12.5 cents had an intrinsic value of 6 cents or LESS! But they were REAL. In practice, the 1R was a TOKEN not a true specie issue. A simple but essential difference that many collectors fail to take into account.
With my background focused on Specie and Intrinsic issues (Dollars of Spanish America primarily Mexico) I admit that I have been too reliant on SG as an absolute test of originality. For example, an 8R was a "Standardized Issue" but a 1R was often treated as a Token in some colonies and the silver level was shorted more than 50%. Therefore while a low SG absolutely condemns an 8R (as either a counterfeit or a Debased original - both being fraudulent coins) it does NOT do so with a colonial 1R or to a lesser extent a 2R.
So in this case, the question is actually did the issuing country view this denomination as a "Storehouse of value" or was it a token that relied more on trust in the issuer than in intrinsic metal content? If the country established a FIRM silver content that never varied and this standard was relied upon then I would agree that SG is a completely reliable final test. Unfortunately, I have rarely seen these coins in person and I know nothing of Islamic monetary policies.
|
|
Moderator
Australia
16837 Posts |
The weight and fineness of the Islamic silver dirham was derived directly from the Sassanian silver drachm. According to Stephen Album's "Checklist of Islamic Coins", the gold and silver fineness and weight remained more or less constant for the first 200 years of the Islamic series (700-900 AD), and the fineness standard of both metals was "close to pure at most mints".
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Sounds like SG will work well.
|
|
New Member
United States
4 Posts |
Remind me to give up on coin collecting this sucks!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4589 Posts |
no do not give up on coin collecting just read read read and becareful of who you trust ... There are many good quality coins and good dealers and or collectors out there.. My question would be did you get this on ebay |
| |
Replies: 17 / Views: 2,288 |
Posted 07/17/2006 04:40 am
