New 1884 P 4 Letter Clash - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 6 / Views: 1,989
twohawks Pillar of the Community United States 1551 Posts	Posted 07/07/2010 12:34 am I just came back from PA and received my package back from Leroy. Most of what I sent in was revisions. 1 on 1878 P Vam-141,141a and the 117, there is a hair in-bedded in the right side of the neck running into the hair. All 3 Vams share the same obverse and it is believed that the reverse also with the 141 and 141a being much later die states (broken (O) in God) 1878-P Vam-232 has a defined PUP, A small die chip in the back of the of the cheek below the ear. 1880-O Vam-6 in now listed with the gouge in the wreath. The 6a was listed with this as well as a clash. I have not seen a vam-6a with a clash with letter transfer. But LVA states that that is what the Vam-6a must have (not just the clash) 1904-O Vam-3 now is also listed with leg spikes The new one is the 1884-P Vam-8g. Leroy states (unlisted partial clashed N,E,S on the obverse and M on the reverse. Is in a different line of the 8b,8c and 8e "Pretty STRONG clash marks at top of reverse.) In his letter to me 1884-P is pretty spectacular coin with all the letters! Hard to photograph with PL fields though. I am perry stoked to have a 4 letter transfer piece as a discovery coin and in a great grade too boot! Edited by twohawks 07/07/2010 12:38 am Report this Post to the Staff

SeatedNut Pillar of the Community United States 2797 Posts	Posted 07/07/2010 09:43 am Quote: 1880-O Vam-6 in now listed with the gouge in the wreath. The 6a was listed with this as well as a clash. I have not seen a vam-6a with a clash with letter transfer. But LVA states that that is what the Vam-6a must have (not just the clash) Russ you're wading in too deep! This is a new "contrary" angle on the 80-O VAM 6 series. What do they call the 80-O with the 8/7 overdate and no gouge? Previous descriptions differentiated the VAM 6 from the 6a by that gouge ... the 6 did not have it and the 6a did. The 6c and 6d had the clashing. I reviewed these last night on VAMWorld and it had not changed. Are you sure the gouge is listed for the VAM 6? Report this Post to the Staff
twohawks Pillar of the Community United States 1551 Posts	Posted 07/07/2010 1:58 pm Later today I will take a photo of the revision. As I read it that is what it states. I think it's wrong, as the 6a was the gouge and clash on my last read!. And as you stated the 6 did not have the gouge. The listing is in my office but from my feeble memory I think Leroy now states the gouge is not big enough to list by it's self and happened sometime between the 6 and 6a. Report this Post to the Staff
aladinslamp Pillar of the Community United States 3076 Posts	Posted 07/07/2010 3:15 pm really cool find Russ, interesting to note...the gouge back then was not deemed listable, yet today many new vams or revisions have been decided by such markers.... Report this Post to the Staff
twohawks Pillar of the Community United States 1551 Posts	Posted 07/07/2010 11:42 pm OK Seatednut !! Here go's Reads, 1880 O 6 (Revised) III2/5. C3a (8/7 Spike) (176) I-4 R-5 Obverse III2/8 re-punched over 7 in date. A long spike extends from top left side of second 8. Small horizontal spike on right inside of upper loop of 8 and a checkmark from the remains of the 7 upper serif show on left side of upper loop. Reverse C3a- Some specimens show die gouge on left side of left wreath. In his letter it reads "80-O VAM 6 revised. Has 8/7 Spike but no clashed dies, so is VAM-6. Also has die gouge at left wreath of Vam-6a. VAM book ^a is listed for die gouge but was later revised to include also clashed letters in 2009 VAM Supplement listing. Die gouge must have occurred on rev die before die clashed. Dont't know if all VAM 6 have die gouge so only changed to read Some have die gouge. Thanks for pointing out die gouge!" I was to understand from my supplement the 6a had the gouge with the clash and gouge on some of them I think the ratio was 3/1 or something. Report this Post to the Staff
SeatedNut Pillar of the Community United States 2797 Posts	Posted 07/08/2010 09:30 am I think this needs to be broached to the experts over on VW for a definitive answer. I've been looking for the VAM 6 (without the die gouge) for many moons. Now Leroy says it doesn't exist? That's what I'm reading from his revision. How did it get a separate listing and rarity hype without having an example? I have several 80-O's with the over-date, some clashed and some not clashed. I'll have to review these for a letter transfer. So if I understand this correctly ... there are now just two: VAM 6 and 6a. VAM 6 is unclashed and 6a is clashed. I don't mind the playing field expanding with new discoveries, but adjustments to the existing landscape has too many negative implications. It tends to damage confidence and credibility. Report this Post to the Staff
twohawks Pillar of the Community United States 1551 Posts	Posted 07/08/2010 10:16 am I agree, two others at VW had the same problem with this coin as to the gouge. I sent it to Leroy as only a revision for some clarity. It's now as clear as mud. Adding a PUP for a type I do not find bad. The 1878 P VAM 232 has a die scratch that is in the same place and is very close too the Hit List 1878 P Vam-227.1 so adding the PUP of the die chip in the neck/cheek area too the Vam-232 too me makes sense. Not as a new type just as a PUP. I plan to post the revisions later tonight over on VW. As a side note on your Vam-9's any plans e-mail me Thanks Russ Edited by twohawks 07/08/2010 10:19 am Report this Post to the Staff
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