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 Replies: 56 / Views: 14,278 |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
I have wondered for a while now at all the fuss over Federal Reserve Notes. I still have great trouble understanding what makes them so interesting and collectible to the vast majority of folks here. The most minute and microscopic of specks causes them to be something of value or at least something to be kept and collected?
I thought that maybe it was attempts to make a normal note appear to be an error note in some way, or to make the run of the mill seem special?
I hear much about blocks. I have recently pondered the block thing and can see how collecting a note from each block, from each district, from each denomination, from each series since 1963 could be quite challenging, and would ultimately end up in a collection of hundreds and hundreds of notes. Sounds like it could be quite a bit of fun to do something like this.
Is this what collecting FRNs is really about, or am I missing the point entirely? Are some FRNs collectible, and others not? I realize that with current issues (1963 - present) that condition would be a major factor.
Star notes are another thing that puzzles me. Is there a preconception that star notes are rare, and therefore, collectible?
That causes me to wonder even more about the word 'rare'. I see it used frequently and loosely (not here, but in listings of various types and locations). I guess that everyone has their own definition of the word, and I would like to know if there are any 'rare' FRNs in the $1 - $100 denominations?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1397 Posts |
OK, I thought about this for a while now and I think I'm finally ready to answer. I don't so much think the bills are rare in fact far from it. What is rare and makes them collectible is what's going on with and about them. In other words it's the details of the bill that are rare, not the bill itself. If I found a dollar that had a serial number of all 1 digit, or a star note with a 2 digit serial, or a dollar with upside down serials... would I consider them rare? Hell yes and so would most other people on the planet. As far as the errors you mentioned, I totally agree with you that everyone is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill where that is concerned. I know that in the last 14 years I have personally hand counted at least 10 million bills. Notice I didn't say $10 million dollars, I said 10 million individual bills. In all that time I have found 1 with a real error (which I posted on these forums) and even then it wasn't a major error. The two bills I posted in the "Ink Smudge" forum I was serious when I said that I actually DEBATED with myself about pulling out my wallet and shelling out two dollars for them. I finally did ofc. Bottom line, if I can make a big deal about them and get some poor slob to give me 4 dollars for them then my work is done.  |
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Pillar of the Community
 3660 Posts |
Thanks Nickelman, that clears up quite a bit for me. I don't condemn anyone for looking for ink smudges, partially turned numbers or things like that. The same sort of things go on with Morgan silver dollars. The solid numbers and radars are things that I can well understand. I have never held one of either in my hand unless I did so unknowingly, but I have seen pictures of such things and would keep them if I were to ever come across them. The thing about blocks though (the AC block or the BK block for instance), is this really what I think it is? Do folks actually collect by blocks? What a tremendous undertaking. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1397 Posts |
Another great example along this topic line is the Joseph Barr note. At any time you can go on ebay and see hoards of people asking phenomenal amounts for these "rare" notes. In reality over 458,880,000 were printed! So truth be known it was Barr himself that was rare, not the note bearing his siggy. But still, there are hundreds of people telling those less informed that those bills are rare so people are going to pay too much for them. One could say they are "collectible" if not rare due to this. But just because they are collectible doesn't mean they are worth more than a bit over face value... actually they shouldn't be worth anything over the normal amount for a note of that era, but they are because people keep paying it. |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
No....no...No...NO...don't tell me that Nickelman. I was planning on retiring on this excessively rare note:  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1397 Posts |
Paper Money Collecting FAQ 3.12
Are banknotes with Barr's signature good investments?
(snip) ...In addition there were star notes--3,680,000 for New York, 3,040,000 for Richmond, 2,400,000 for Chicago and 3,040,000 for San Francisco.Millions of the notes are being hoarded by non-collectors acting on rumors, and in today's world they are losing money every day they hold onto one of these notes.
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Money.org | U.S. Paper Money FAQ
Joseph Barr Notes
Interestingly, in 1995, numismatic author Alan Herbert stated, "A $1 Barr note deposited in an interest-bearing account in 1969 would have been worth over $4.00, figuring 6% interest compounded annually. A circulated Barr note kept in a safe-deposit box for 26 years is worth $1 today."
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I don't know about that losing money part. I went to one site just now and found uncirculated star notes for sale. I had to put one in my cart to see the price and it said it was 99.95 but was sold out. Like I was saying, they are kind of expensive for something that isn't worth anything.
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Both of the references that you post are written from an inflationary economic stand point, but absolutely true and correct. Consider this: In 1969, a dollar could buy a certain amount of goods. Today, a dollar only buys a fraction of what it did 40 years ago. This is the difference between collecting for fun (true collecting), and collecting for investment (hoarding). A collector can collect anything he/she wants to, and have a great deal of fun doing it despite the frowns, snickers and snorts from the rest of the collecting community. PT Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute", hence the availability of Barr notes for $99.95, and the hoarding of FRN star notes. As far as $1 green seal FRNs go, there will be only a very few notes that will ever be worth anything more than face (the $1 FRN 1981a - K*, 1985 - H*, 1988 - F*, 1993 - C*, 1999 - D* + F*, all solid numbers, radars, repeaters, low numbers and errors (real errors). Premium = scarcity. Here is a note that was printed immediately after the Barr notes, and despite its condition, I think will hold a premium over face for a long time to come despite the fact that it is a 1969 Atlanta. (They are out there).  |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Now here is a real bargain, there have already been six offers, so better hurry and use that BIN. The most convincing part is the description: http://cgi.ebay.com/1963-B-1-FEDERA...em334e77dfddI really didn't mean to sound like I am down on Atlanta FRNs. I have a few of them. Here is one of the very first Atlanta FRNs. Known population: 27  Edited by zeewool
07/14/2010 2:12 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1358 Posts |
Zeewool, that's an awesome 1969 error note!
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
I don't know about "awesome" searcher, but it is a little different, and I posted it just to deep the dream alive.
It is pretty obvious that it has seen some action (hopefully not just in underwear though).
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
As far as $1 green seal FRNs go, there will be only a very few notes that will ever be worth anything more than face Don't forget about the web notes of 1988A-1995  |
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Valued Member
United States
72 Posts |
Some of the fuss over "fancy" serials seems to be in seeing a contrived value in something with more of a novelty worth. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with collecting something you like. That's what it's all about. And the more people that share your interest the more you're apt to pay a competitive price. But there are individuals selling "fancy" serials where the numbers are only vaguely similar in some contrived way. In many cases the novelty worth does not always seem to live up to the competitive prices. On the other hand there is genuine value in something scarce and also having an early example of something. So personally I think zeros on A block and star notes is the only way to go in saving Federal Reserve notes.  |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Right you are Bio. The 1985 - H*, and the 1988 - F* notes that I mentioned earlier are the web notes. Many folks actually consider web notes to be experimental notes, despite the fact that the web press was not put into service as an experiment, but rather a faster means of printing over the Giori press. Neither speed or quality product achieved measured up to the Giori/COPE-PAK press though, and that was the end of it. Web notes (in my opinion) are no more valuable than Barr notes, and were printed in much higher numbers.
I agree with everything you say CRH (except the 'star' note part).
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1397 Posts |
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But there are individuals selling "fancy" serials where the numbers are only vaguely similar in some contrived way. Totally agree. It's a pet peeve of mine when I see people throw the "fancy" words around ( ebay is the worst example) for a note. Sorry but 23459201 is NOT a ladder, 32101023 is NOT a radar, a low serial needs more than 1 or 2 zeros at the front, etc. etc. |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Heh, heh, heh. Well what do you think about 'binary' and 'trinary' notes? These are terms that are fairly recent (as far as I know). Does trinary mean that it is 'almost a 'binary'? Does 'binary' mean it is almost a solid number? Does 'low' serial mean that the first digit is '0'? Does 'super low' serial mean that the first two digits are '0'?
I still have not even the faintest clue what a 'mini-radar' is. How about a 'partial ladder'? I guess that you are right, 'fancy' seems to be all encompassing.
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Valued Member
United States
72 Posts |
Partial ladder is the one that really gets me.
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Replies: 56 / Views: 14,278 |
Posted 07/08/2010 6:56 pm
