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 Replies: 10 / Views: 5,803 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
I just got this in a junk box, and I think that it might be an Australian token since I see in my Krause that there are other tokens from down under which feature Britannia holding out scales. Any help would be appreciated!   Identified - moved to Tokens forum - Sap |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Not Australian, Canadian. It is known as a Tiffin token because they were made for a Montreal merchant names Joseph Tiffin. They were made in 1832 but predated to 1812 to avoid anti-importation regulations. The design is based on that of a British token. There are over 24 die varieties. There is a book on the varieties of the Tiffin tokens (THE TIFFIN TOKENS OF CANADA by Gregory Ingram) but it is out of print and hard to get. (There are currently no copies available anywhere online, and I have found only one copy available in a library. The Wisconsin Historical Society has a copy. I also happen to know the ANA Library has a copy.) I have a copy but it is not here with me so I can't help on the variety. Edited by Conder101
07/28/2010 11:06 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3499 Posts |
Conder101- Wow, thanks for the info! Might you know off the top of your head the general rarity of this coin? Also might you have a guess as to the value? I paid only 25 cents for it, so I presume that I did well.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
The typical common variety Tiffin in this condition would usually retail around three or four dollars. I have seen the rarer ones go for $20 and up.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
Conder101- Thanks for the help & info! Out of curiosity, just how rare are these? (Tiffin Tokens in general). I am just surprised that in all of my years of collecting I have neither seen nor heard of one until now.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
They aren't too scarce, there are at least half a dozen of them on ebay right now in grades ranging from AG to MS and that's with just two quick searches. I'm sure if I tried a few more variations there are probably more of them. Some will be unknowns and others will be listed under the wrong countries etc. Just did a search for "token 1812" and turned up 12 of then. There are a lot of different types of Canadian tokens from the pre-Confederation era. When you start looking at the token field it is amazing what all is out there. I have been collecting for 38 years and I am still running across things I've never seen or heard of. Some items I know of but have never seen. An example of this is what is called a shell cent. They were somewhat popular during the Depression as a cheap souvenir of places or events. What they were was a copper shell that would be embossed with a design or lettering about the place or event. Then a new cent for the year would be placed into the shell obv out and then a set of rollers would lightly crimp the edge of the shell down to hold the cent in. They would be sold for a few cents apiece. I have seen a couple of generic place shell cents, but the one I'm looking for was a souvenir of the Hauptman-Lindburgh Kidnapping trial. They were some in the courthouse during the trial. I know they exist but I've never seen one. But even the average run of the mil shell cents never seem to show up. I've only seen a couple, yet supposedly they used to be popular back then. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3499 Posts |
Conder101- Thanks for all of the info! Very interesting stuff!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Does anyone have any further information on the person Halliday who in 1832 supplied Joseph Tiffin with these pieces? Why do collectors suspect that after these English imports from England via Halliday to Tiffin that they were later counterfeited? Were the original Tiffins heavier and then dropped in their average weight as time move forward from 1832?
John Lorenzo
United States
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Valued Member
Canada
480 Posts |
Halliday struck tokens in England. His initial is found on some issues. The dark blob, about one third of the way up the bottom of the bust where it is angled up to the left, is actually the H. The original of these tokens was actually struck circa 1812, of copper. Yours appears to be a 1832 original copper Tiffin, in lightweight copper, reference (Charlton) LC-48A2, Breton 960, Courteau 22T, and W607. In my catalogue (5th edition, 2003), it lists for $4 in VG and $8 in F. This variety is called Bust laureated, with 2 leaves sticking up over the head, and 3 daisies crown the cornucopia over Britannia's shoulder.
The 1832 "originals" are found in Copper and Brass. There are 2 classes of counterfeits (plus blacksmith types), all in brass. They were issued in 1832-1836, and have progressively poorer details in the head, wreath, and Britannia.
Now, the problem. The head design and wreath design match the c.1832 copper originals, but the catalogue says that "Halliday's H does not appear on this token." I am at a bit of a loss, as the H appears clear, and matches the position on the H on one type of the original 1812 issues. The head type- jutting out face, flat chin, does not match the original 1812 types, which have a small head. The wreath details are also much less thick than the 1812 original wreath, which has 3 solid lines of leaves in the wreath. Suggestions, anyone?
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Valued Member
Canada
480 Posts |
This might help- the 1812 originals were 8.2-8.6 grams in weight, and 28.3-28.9 mm diameter. The c1832 Tiffin "originals" were 5.3-6.6 grams in weight, and 27.3-27.7 mm diameter, while the imitations were 5.0-5.9 grams in weight, and 27.4-27.7 mm diameter.
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Valued Member
Canada
115 Posts |
I've checked with the Tiffin token book and it is TF-24, which is also Courteau 24, (Charlton LC-48A1), rarity 1. Both the TF22 and 24 share the same reverse(date side). The obverse has a slightly different bust of the king. Should be copper, about 5.4 gms., coinage axis, plain edge, 25.7 mm. diameter. Yours would barely be VG. Here's one the same that I just sold on ebay. item # 110850549289 |
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Replies: 10 / Views: 5,803 |
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Posted 07/28/2010 10:21 am
