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 Replies: 23 / Views: 3,604 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
528 Posts |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...t_500wt_1154I got on my ebay and have a bust dollar for sale. I had this message in my inbox: Dear tccoin, No one likes to be super critical, but if you think this coin rates very Good, I have a couple of lightly used bridges with little use in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to you. The coin is 210 years old and the obverse is worn so smooth that all you can identify is the date. I know you want to encourage potential buyers, but REALLY! - kidcoin1 I replied with this: Dear kidcoin1, A few things. Thank you for sending me a message about the coin. First off, I never said very good. If you read it again it will be clear that I said good. Second, I clearly stated that the coin might grade higher except for the weak center strike. Third, because this coin is older the grading standard is a little lower putting this at a Good. A bust dollar in good is worn more than say a Mercury dime in good. As for only being able to identify the date I need to disagree very strongly. There is a full liberty as well as a full rim and all the stars. As far as the device goes most of the outline can be seen and even some details besides. I dont want to be super critical but you are wrong. I'm not trying to be mean, just to explain some information about coins to you. - tccoin Do you think I was to harsh? I dont think I was at all.   Edited by Napoleon31ft
08/02/2010 10:41 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1291 Posts |
I don't think you were too harsh. I just think you spent more time and effort on him than he deserved. I would have either ignored him altogether or asked him, "Does this mean that I cannot count on receiving your bid?"
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
528 Posts |
Well it was one of those "Im tired of this kind of thing so I'm going to have the satisfaction of just venting on him" kind of things.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1000 Posts |
I read your description and I think it was a case of misinterpreting what you typed.
I think he interpreted "VERY conservative Good" as you saying "Conservatively Very Good"
But I don't think you were too harsh, because I thought his/her message was pretty harsh.
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Valued Member
United States
294 Posts |
I'll play devil's advocate here, since you did ask: Quote:
First off, I never said very good What you said was "...VERY conservative Good" This could be a little misleading. With emphasis on the Very and Good it does look like a Very Good grade. Perhaps not capitalizing VERY would have made the statement a little clearer. Quote:
because this coin is older the grading standard is a little lower Maybe I'm mistaken, but isn't a standard a standard? I didn't realize age changed the grading standard. While I understand the grading has loosened a bit, I don't remember seeing that the older the coin, the looser the standard. My wife, due to her age, now beomes an "8"? From what I've read (and I'm no expert) wear on a coin is wear on a coin. I think the questions could have been written with a little less sarcasm, but they are legitimate questions. So yeah, you may have been a little harsh. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
528 Posts |
Yeah I guess I might have been.
You are right that a standard is a standard but the requirements for every coin is different and on older coins sometimes it takes A LOT of wear to get to a about good or good. Its not so much looser standards as different requirements.
About the Very conservative good. I have had a couple different people look at it and all said that if it were not for the small rim dings it would grade at a very good. I guess it might be a bit hard to understand but its still seems clear enough.
in my defense this guy was still pretty off.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
The only thing that really jumps out at me is the inquirers name, "Kidcoin1". If he was possibly a young numismatist, he probably deserved the kid gloves.
Jim
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
isn't a standard a standard? I didn't realize age changed the grading standard Age does change grading standards when you are talking about a coin struck on an 18th century screw press with human or horse power. You cannot compare it to the strike quality of more modern steam or electric powered presses and strike quality plays a huge role in grading. "kidcoin1" really needs to get off ebay and go read some numismatic books and maybe even get an eye exam. I see alot more than just a date on the obverse... |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2448 Posts |
 Excellent point. Suggest that he join this forum. I know what you're thinking "another wet behind the ears pain"! Guess what, they'll learn and where better than here. Not only that, post the coins the kid might be interested in. Can't think of a better way to learn. You'll increase your clientèle also. |
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
497 Posts |
Kidcoin1's tone was unnecessarily sarcastic, and I think biokemist6 sums up the grading standard issue to a tee. If Kidcoin1 is someone inexperienced in coins, then they have no right to have such a self assured tone when a lot of his remarks are clearly way off. I'd say your response was appropriate.
www.kingstoncoincompany.co.uk
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New Member
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Grading is without a doubt a very difficult task and the difficulty increases when the coin is older. I would say you were straight forward and explained yourself well.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
528 Posts |
Well I'm glad that I was right in what I said.
Now I just need a few of you to bid up the coin!!
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Valued Member
United States
294 Posts |
Quote:
Age does change grading standards when you are talking about a coin struck on an 18th century screw press with human or horse power. You cannot compare it to the strike quality of more modern steam or electric powered presses and strike quality plays a huge role in grading. Not to hijack the thread, but it's part of the discussion, so I have a question. When I posted earlier, I was at my desk, bored because it was a slow day. Now I'm home, still bored, but next to my copy of the ANA Grading Standards. While I understand that strike quality affects value, nowhere in the book does it say that strike quality affects the grade. I actually looked at the standards specific to the coin in question, and it does not mention the strength or weakness of the strike in determining the grade. Grade, as I read the book, is based on wear and damage. Please, let me know if I'm reading this wrong. I'm trying to learn, just like everybody else. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1213 Posts |
I don't think you were too harsh either and I like the coin and would bid on it except I've already blown my August budget. Good luck with it. I also agree that recommending he join the CCF would be a good education for him.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
You are correct in stating that strike quality will not directly affect the grade but it can indirectly affect it by causing someone to misgrade a coin in a negative way and not take the entire coin into consideration. These early date coins also had another strike against them- the dies were hand engraved and hand punched so there was a tremendous amount of variation in the design from die to die. I am glad you mentioned that you have a copy of the ANA Grading Standards, every collector should have it in their numismatic library  The beginning sections make for excellent reading and help to give insight into the skill of coin grading. The pages relevant to this discussion are pgs. 20-22 with particular attention paid to the last paragraph on pg 22. |
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Valued Member
United States
407 Posts |
Remember, there's one in every crowd.
The person seemed to simply want to argue your interpretation of the grade, and a misreading of your words, and in a snide manner. Your response was to the point, and not at all mean or nasty. You held your tongue, so to speak, well.
True enough though, the formation of the words could lead one, who is so disposed, to read them in a context not intended. "Very conservative Good" is not a grade, and I would not read those words as such. But I can see how "someone" would. Of course, when I want to, I can read the word "No" and get "Yes" out of it!
Steve
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Replies: 23 / Views: 3,604 |
Posted 08/02/2010 11:05 am
