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 Replies: 22 / Views: 4,303 |
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New Member
United States
4 Posts |
Hi All, I started investing in gold and silver coins a couple of years ago... initial experience was poor (I felt a dealer recommended by a family member ripped me off badly), since then has gotten a bit better... Anyway, because of my lack of confidence in coin dealers I've become interested in purchasing "junk silver" coins like Walking Liberties because: > They don't appear to need any grading or evaluation by an expert > They seem a simple way to physically acquire silver > I've seen highly rated sellers on ebay selling these for much, much less than the coin dealer I've been recently talking to. So, I've come here for some advice from folks who've been around. QUESTIONS: 1) Is there anything wrong with purchasing circulated Walking Liberties (or similar) from highly rated sellers on ebay so long as I'm referencing the current "melt" price to determine the underlying silver value? 2) My only concern at this point (and perhaps I'm wrong!) is getting fake coins. This does not seem likely to me, but what's the best way to check these particular coins? 3) In reviewing the prices on various Walking Liberties I see that most have an identical value, but there are a few years that are special. However, when I bought a number of coins from a certain dealer a while back I asked about the years and he said, "it doesn't matter". This leads me to wonder: do all dealers respect, for example, a 1917 "D" Liberty? (If I'm reading correctly, this one is worth $19-27 and I got it buried in a roll of 20 I bought elsewhere.) In a nutshell, I'm looking for a simplest and most economical way to invest in physical silver and gold, with an emphasis on silver. I want to avoid paying unfair premiums. Appreciate any advice - it was really frustrating to me early on to start investing in stocks right around May of 2008, deal with all that, sift through all the analysis and commentary and, on my own, come to the right conclusion that Precious Metals were a good investment... only to have the generally correct investment decision undermined by trusting the wrong dealer and buying the wrong coins. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6326 Posts |
Nothing wrong with "junk silver"..... But I would suggest you look into American Silver Eagles. The " Bullion" ones that you can only get from dealers (or ebay or wherever). The ones sold from the Mint that "we" can all buy are NOT the ones I'm talking about. Those sell for premiums even from the mint. These are (or were) Proof and Burnished Uncirculated, not the "Bullion" I'm talking about. You can get some great deals on bulk "Bullion" Silver Eagles in a lot of places. They are even sold in "Green Monster Boxes", as they are called.....or can also be bought in rolls. Also, the Gold Eagles could be an investment opportunity too. But I would also say, that gold and silver are REALLY HIGH RIGHT NOW ! At this time could be a "losing" proposition to buy too much of these. One thing is for sure about those markets........ IT'S VOLITILE ! .......and a "roller-coaster ride" for sure ! In a couple years, Gold might be down a few hundred dollars an ounce.....silver could go back to $12.00 an ounce too.......you just never know. Edited by eaglefoot
08/04/2010 10:39 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1534 Posts |
Here's my advice. If you feel a lack of confidence when buying, learn more about grading and authenticating before buying. If you don't do your research you will get bad deals no matter how many precautions you take. There is no magic answer to getting ripped off or scammed, so I suggest you do the research before buying. Same thing with any other investment or hobby. And  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2448 Posts |
I don't think it's an issue of grading technique, he is tired of overpriced silver. A lot dealers sell at premiums well above spot. Junk silver fits his needs perfectly. We all call it junk, but really the intrinsic value is anything but junk lately. Remember that the price of commodities, and even some series of coins, is tied to the market.
As a collector I too share his apprehension and recently told a dealer where to place his coin because of two factors; highly over graded and he was a jerk. For some of us, its about the commodity not the numismatic experience. Nothing wrong with what you're doing. Just be becareful...one of these days the bug will bite you and you will start up-grading your "investment". Since you already have a small hand hold, referring to the 1917D Walker worth, I'd say you were just about to start because you recognized the numismatic value of that "Walker". BTW was it a reverse or obverse mint mark?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2448 Posts |
Forgot to tell you. Get yourself a good magnet. Silver and gold are not ferrous and the quantity of the other metals should not make the coin magnetic.
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New Member
 United States
4 Posts |
@carmykle: I really appreciate the feedback. I think you understand where I'm coming from - I'm comfortable with the risk in the price of silver itself, as I think there's a reasonable chance it is going much higher. It's paying for premiums that I either don't understand or could reduce with some educated shopping that I'm after. (Example: Dealer wanted to sell me 20 Walkers for $170 - I got the same from ebay for $140... not a big deal for 20 coins, but will add up if I start buying more.) Thanks for the advice - I shall grab a good magnet. (BTW: I'm pretty sure it was an obverse mint mark, though the coin isn't in good shape but - OUCH - I think I just felt something bite me.) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = @wheatguy - fair enough. I'm trying to learn - thank you! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = @eaglefoot - thanks being the first reply to my first post! :-) I'll check out those other coins, too. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2661 Posts |
I truly love "Junk Silver". I'll take any "junk" Walker, Merc, Barber, or Franklin over a bullion ingot any day of the week. Silver is just silver and gold is gold. But a classic silver or gold coin has history and sometimes a story behind it that can be told. Also, in the unlikely event that the metals market tanks to historic lows the coin will still have it's numismatic value to prop up it's total net worth.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
573 Posts |
I agree with Tim. If we do have an Argentina-type financial meltdown, people still remember what our older silver money looked like. I believe it will be trusted more than ASEs, Kooks, Libertads, etc.
There are forums out there that specialize in investing in PMs. There's one I frequent quite often, but I'm not sure if I can post it here. GABON, pm me and I can give it to you if you want. If you read through that one, you will get quite an education on the investing side of coins/PMs.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2448 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
290 Posts |
Here are a few lessons I have learned in junk silver:
- the smaller the denomination, the more it was probably used and might be worn coins. I recently put 50 mercs in a plastic coin container and felt that I could have fit 7 more coins in there. Hence, for junk dimes I look for Roosies over mercs (although I like a good merc more).
- the same theory for older coins, the generally have more wear. You can tell I like a good thick coin!
- anything less than 90% is easy to pick up, but generally harder to get rid of - at least close to melt. If you are looking at these, get a good deal to make it worth it.
- keep stacking. Dollar cost average.
- I buy bullion too. Being in the U.S., I am partial to Eagles. Generally speaking, anything from a national mint (U.S., Canada, Australia, etc.) will carry a higher premium than something from a private mint (sunshine, JM, Engelhard). I like to go for things that are going to be more recognizable in my part of the world. For some that doesn't matter, but something to consider.
- don't buy from China.
- buy what you like, but also develop a strategy so you don't just buy things on the spur. Strategies can always change, but don't blow your cash on something you may regret or that will take you off course.
- enjoy.
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Valued Member
United States
290 Posts |
I would also add, don't buy junk or bullion expecting numismatics.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
1) Is there anything wrong with purchasing circulated Walking Liberties...from highly rated sellers on ebay...I'm referencing the current "melt" price to determine the underlying silver value? Very good way to go. 2) My only concern at this point...is getting fake coins. This does not seem likely to me, but what's the best way to check these particular coins?Common-date, circulated Walker halves are rarely counterfeited. If you buy them in Good to Very Fine condition, there is virtually no chance on getting a counterfeit. 3) In reviewing the prices on various Walking Liberties I see that most have an identical value, but there are a few years that are special. Many Walkers from the teens and twenties are better dates. Once you get into the thirties and forties, almost none are better dates.
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New Member
United States
4 Posts |
@Tim Stroud: That's an interesting point about the numismatic value being a sort of hedge against metal price declines. I'm interested in numismatics a bit and might start pecking away if I learn enough reading here and other places. (I did notice a slabbed coin on ebay the other day for about 20% less than what a dealer was offering it to me for... it got me thinking. But that's phase-two for me.) @StJoeBlues: I'm trying to PM/Email you but I'm getting an error. I'll check with the Admin. @novillero: Those are cool points - I'm thinking I will lean towards larger denom 90% silver coins. @bherring1964: All that gives me more confidence, so thank you. It seemed like a valid approach but I was wondering if I was missing something. Glad I found this forum. :-) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
687 Posts |
Couple points I've learned: If you're just looking silver content go with more common coins like 64 Kennedy halves or Franklin halves. There are oodles of 64 Kennedy's out there and not a huge demand from collectors (you only need two for your Kennedy album). Dimes have the lowest premium over spot (opposite of bullion where fractional coins have a higher premium) - especially Roosies since there aren't any real keys. Dollar coins sell for way over spot. Often you can buy very nice Roosies or even Mercs from a dealer's junk bucket that have a decent numismatic value over spot. I've flipped a few mercs on ebay that I bought for spot and then sold for a few bucks more. You won't make much money but it can be a good start to learn cherry picking. Be careful when you sell too and do a little research into the coins you hold. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has bought a key or a semi-key in a junk lot or bought a junk lot of 40% halves and found 90% halves in it. You can usually buy 40% halves for under spot, but so can everyone else which is why they are hard to sell. Like novillero says, don't waste your time unless you are getting a deal. You can almost always buy junk War Nickels for under spot but they're really hard to sell over spot and they're illegal to melt. Maybe that's an investment opportunity, but only if you can get them dirt cheap. Be warned though that there are a lot of misinformed people out there who think nickels from 64 and below are all silver and will try to sell common nickels for War Nickel prices. |
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Valued Member
United States
290 Posts |
If you buy slabbed, make sure it it is from a reputable grading company! There are some that have very poor reputations and it would be a waste of money to think you are getting something you are not. As rollhunter said, higher denominations like Morgans and Peace are always sold for over spot. (But everyone has a soft spot for a Morgan). I don't concentrate on them for that reason. As to bullion fractionals, I made that mistake once (silver 1/10). Did not read the ebay sale closely and was shocked when the coin arrived! They sell for way over spot. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
If you've been following gold in the last couple of months, you'd see a zigzag pattern, from 1200, to 1240ish, back down to 1200, and below to 1170, then back up to 1190s. Silver, on the other hand, hasn't dipped below 15-16 in a while, and really hasn't broken 20 either for a bit, ranging from high 17s to low 19s if lucky. I wouldn't be surprised if I saw silver hit 30-35 in my lifetime. This is from memory, I'm not looking at any charts right now, but you have to decide what your personal bottoms and highs are, and play with that. You say you're investing, so go with American Eagles. They are the most accepted bullion from the looks of it, the most liquid.
In respect to WLs, they are a good starting point, but make sure you get a good deal - meaning, buy in bulk to reduce the overall cost. And if you're investing these, do you have a market wherein you can dump them when you hit your personal
high?
Good luck!
If you're worried about getting fake coins from the Bay, then I would so some heavy research on top sellers by going through all of the customer feedback, filtering out the obvious customers that are happy no matter what. In person, though, you can watch out for lead. It hasn't a density very very close to silver and nonmagnetic. Can be a lead core with plating, so make sure your dealer is reputable! (This last part is talking about bullion, not WLs.) When you're comfortable enough buying silver you can get generic rounds from private mints. They have a low premium but may be harder thatn AEs to liquidate when you need the money.
Edited by Libertad
08/05/2010 08:18 am
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Replies: 22 / Views: 4,303 |
Posted 08/04/2010 11:16 am
