Coin Conservation, How Does It Differ From...

Good questions.

Why have coin conservers? Shipwrecks being found countaining hundreds or millions of dollars.

Why is no one screaming? Plenty are, but who wants to get on the bad sied of NGC.

Is conserved noted on holder? If they can get away with it, NO.

Can you tell it has been conserved? Absolutely. It is still cleaned despite what NGC calls it.

Are they old coin doctors? Most are.

I have seen many of the conserved coins, and have even sold a few. Do I like it? For the coins that are historically significant, yes. For general purpose of removing toning, NO. They call it conserving because they body-bag coins we clean ourselves. They are good at what they do, and I recommend them to everyone, however, call the spade a spade.

You ask “has anyone use these services?� and the answer is “yes�, I have with a few coins that were found in very poor condition.

Many years ago, when the Mormans were traveling through this country on their way to Salt Lake, they were forced by early snows to winter in a canyon we now call “Morman Canyon�. It had outcroppings of coal and they took advantage of this to use for their fuel all winter in camp. Mine shafts were drilled back into the imbankments and coal extracted. After they moved on, the shafts filled with water and the shallow ones subsided and caved in, closing the mine shafts.

To shorten a long story, we found a good number of coins, possibly placed there on purpose or forgotten before they moved on to Utah. Some were actually fused togather and others were covered with what I called “gunk� for lack of a better word. These were the coins we had conserved.

The service was performed by a professional coin conservorter. They were never identified as having been conserved (cleaned). Yes you can tell they had gone through a very harsh cleaning as it was necessary to get the gunk off of them. As I remember it , the persons actually doing the conserving (cleaning) were all young men, with older men in control of the process. As for calling spades a spade, who cares what NGC thinks? That is the least of my concerns.

NCS conservation, from what I have seen, and seen discussed can be considered "good" and "bad" for the hobby.

Examples of Good:

1. Restoration of fire damaged coins (see NCS ad in April Numismatist)

2. Removal of PVC crud from valuable Proof coins that "turned in the holder" (i.e. coins that were submitted in PVC flips)

3. Restoration of shipwreck coins

4. Removal of unsightly surface contaminants (I had this successfully done on a mint state VAM-4 34-D Peace dollar)


Example of Bad:

Removal of attractive toning from high grade classic proof and mint state coins in an attempt to get a higher grade (for example, a collector of Proof Trade dollars was horrified when he found out a coin he sold with nice toning was dipped by NCS to get a higher grade in an NGC holder)


IMO, the good has outweighed the bad. However, I have been hearing more and more stories of classic coins being "dipped out" by NCS in pursuit of higher grades. This is the principal reason David Hall is reluctant to establish a conservation service at PCGS.

I once considered sending into NCS my 3 cleaned $20 saints so then they would be sent to NGC to see what they would do. (I expect they would of body bagged them again as cleaned even tho NCS submitted them). Since these coins were already submitted once to either NGC & PCGS, (at 1 time I was a member with both). Both of them return a total of 3 saints in body bags. These coins were what I would call high grade saints and is what got me to stop buying "unslabbed" saints on ebay. Also it is what started me studying how to detect a whizzed or cleaned gold/silver coins.
This subject was broached in couple of threads in CW forum. When it was posted that once a coin has been cleaned, or especially whizzed, there is no way to reverse the process and or damage. At that point I went ahead and converted the coins into jewelry. (I could not with a clear concious dump these coins on a unsuspecting buyer). I acquired some nice bezels for them and sold them off. Except for the 1915S, that beauty I bezeled and bought a nice thick big gold chain and I kept it for meself (If you buy coined jewelry you better expect they have been cleaned).

The general consensus is that acetone does not leave signs of cleaning on gold or silver and doesn't change the metal composition. If you let it air dry, you also get no wipe marks. You will find many different opinions on whether acetone dipping is cleaning or not. Since it does remove foreign matter from the coin, I personally consider it to be cleaned and I think that the dipping should be stated if the coin is for sale. I would also go into detail and explain how it was done and why, though. In my opinion, this method should only be used to remove harmful contaminents from a coin's surface and not as general maintenance on your coins.

I get about one quarter of my proofs or old goldcoins with a fresh fingerprint on it
Put on when they do the scanning or photographing
So I have no choice but to use acetone
Actually since I am a chemical engineer I poor the acetone over the coin whilst holding it ( I know all the dangers but since I did airbrushing I have a very powerfull extraction system )
So it is not even dipping
I looked at the coins every which way afterwards and never detected a difference

I think that in many cases, "conservation" can be a good thing.

Sadly and disturbingly, however, I also think that conservation is being widely over-used and even abused, causing many perfectly fine/nice coins to be ruined (forever).

In my opinion, many of the "conserved" coins are either being graded higher than they deserve to be, or are being assigned grades, when they should be receiving "no-grades".

In a multitude of cases, unnatural looking "conserved" coins are being rewarded, rather than penalized in grade - I think that is backwards, not to mention wrong.

I know many other dealers who feel the same way, but for various reasons, some of them are hesitant or afraid to speak out publicly on this subject. That is their right, but I sure wish more of them would stick their necks out alongside mine.

quote:

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Originally posted by national dealer

Ageka,

As one who has veiwed many thousands of coins, all substances leave a mark. Even acetone. While it may not look cleaned, it shows signs of running. Use different lights when viewing the coin before and after using the acetone. LED lights will show the running of the liquid. If using acetone to remove something harmful, I say go for it. It is better to clean than to damage.

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Hi ND,
What is your feeling about a distilled water rinse? I have some circ coins that just plain look dirty, as if someone left them on a dusty counter for 20 years.
Thanks,
Don