VAMs. Where Is The Hobby Headed?

I think that I could believe it if there is a major overhaul of what is considered a die pair, what is unidentifiable now as a die pair and the designation of these 'not otherwise listed' pairings. There muus be something new on the horizon, some new contraption that is unavailable now that will be able to discern such things? I think that there are a bevy of '21s that are not yet differentiated from each other.

Are you talking about near future, or sometime later, like when time travel becomes affordable to the average American?

so, I've been thinking more about where the future is headed... and a few more observations.

First the downward price pressures. It seems like coins, and society as a whole, is moving toward commodification. Not sure if that is a word or not but it seems coins are becoming a commodity just like any other. Not something to be savored and enjoyed as in years past or collected because you like it, but something to have and sell later at a profit--- like pork belly futures. But, one speculator can only sell to another speculator so many times till there is simply no profit left.

Related to the commodification is the fact that it seems younger people don't want to put the time in to learn some of these things. Traditionally coin collectors put in years, or even decades to learn things in-depth enough to look at VAMS... now there's books, the internet, etc and you can purchase darn near any variety on ebay, thus giving the distorted view that there's more out there than there really are.

On a related note this is (IMO) why grading services do such brisk business- you can read the label and even if you don't know a PUP from a puppy you can know you have an XYZ VAM because the TPG says so. And you know you can sell it later to someone that may not know either because, again, the TPG says that's what it is. Again, commodification...

Now, this is NOT to say that there's not those who love it for its own sake, but I'm speaking "on the whole." As the older generation quits the hobby for various reasons, the newer generation needs to replace them in order for the prices to rise or remain stable. And on the whole, younger people don't have the patience or the inclination to spend years in pursuit of a hobby, especially when (unless you are rich, inherit them or know a coin shop owner) you don't have easy access to good specimens. Think about what got you into coin collecting, or coins in general. For many of the original VAMmers it was buying Morgans from the bank at face value. That isn't ever going to happen again. $13+ per coin for a non-special coin is not "starter" prices for most.

This is of course due to the aforementioned fact that they are silver-- keeps the price of a coin high but also keeps the entry cost high, and therefore drives down newer collectors to this series...


The one thing that I see driving the prices higher is the fact that to some extent this is a very exclusive hobby. Coin collecting already is, but with VAMS especially there's only a certain amount of coins, and only a few really have the knowledge to identify them..and if there's one thing that the really wealthy want, it's to be a part of an exclusive club. The same people that go to an art gallery and buy a 50k painting to prove how genteel they are, or who purchase a Ducati motorcycle only to park it in their 87-car garage will (I think) be the ones to collect the rarest VAMs, just to say they have one. This could spill over when they decide to complete the set, it's hard to say.

Not sure which one will win or which way prices will go. I'm thinking down, but any of the these is more of a "I-want-it-only-because-other-people-want-it" mentality than a traditional collector...which I don't particularly care for.

Sorry for the rambling, it's late and this type of subject has been on my mind lately for personal reasons and I'm thinking about where my own personal hobby is going.

yikes guess you all were posting as I was composing my novel. I think to some extent the die variety and especially the die pair is the hobby trying to expand itself in the face of ever-increasing technology---ie digital photos, microscopes capable of taking high-res photos and the internet.

Think about it...die pairs have really exploded only in the last few years. It wasn't that long ago where if you wanted to describe a particular die pair you could only have someone come over and look at it with you... and you would certainly never be able to share specifics with (or sell it to) someone halfway around the country or the world. This was simply not available. So I think that to some extent it is here to stay and is not a fad, though as I said above I am not sure the next generation is going to pick it up to quite the extent it is now.

As more die varieties are identified, codified and consolidated it is increasingly clear that many of the sought after coins are not as rare as first assumed. It is also increasingly clear that the astronomical prices paid for these coins might have been nothing more than the whim of a collector who had the money and bought into the notion that purchasing and collecting Morgan and Peace dollars by die variety was the way to go. In forty plus years of vamming, from my vantage point I count maybe fifteen serious collectors willing or able or have put up the money for rare vams.

The lure of vamming is for the average collector to be able to cherry pick a rare and valuable VAM for common money.

Zee, you ask a question I am not ready to answer.

Then I shall wait Terry...Take your time...I forgot what the question was anyway.




Yeah, right.....I don't believe that for one minute. That rascal is habitually blowing me off, and I am getting sick and tired of it.


Edited to add: Secret Argent Man, our views on this subject are uncannily paralleled.

NOW I AM REALLY mad............It's taken me an hour or to to reload and to get back online. so I can hear what a jerk I am......SO be it.....IS IT REALLY MY TURN? . I must have avoided my questions in the past..for a real answer....Must be BURGER KING TIME.. have it your way.......I could not have possibly called anyone, to say I needed help.....That is my way. rather. than to simply express my views not caring about your opinions...obviously that is my way.. GET USED TO IT...

ok fm my friends....nuff said

I swear that I've heard this sort of rhetoric somewhere before....Let me look through my old posts.