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Pillar of the Community
 3660 Posts |
Quote:
As for die failures due to relief, high relief requires more pressure to strike... more pressure almost always equals less die life That is a myth Remmy. It is certainly not true. 100 tons would have been sufficient, 120, 150, 200, matters not, it is overkill. Confer with someone who owns a press, I have asked the pressure question before, since it didn't make sense to me, and the answer was of my own thinking. The upper die will only deploy to a predetermined depth regardless of pressure applied. |
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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
Again... there is a documented change in striking pressure between the 2. Why the change if it made NO difference?
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Pillar of the Community
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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
Me either. One can assume it was to extend the life of the die. But we may never know. (kinda like the tootsie-pops... how many licks to get to the center? I hate that dam owl!... The answer aint 3)
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
As far as the tootsie roll pop goes, that would depend on the pressure and strike adjustments that you made to your jaw (the press), the service life of your teeth (the dies) and the consistency of the candy (planchet and the annealing of same). As for the press pressure thing, what is the source of this documentation? And then, I want to see some die breaks and Cuds please. |
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Valued Member
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380 Posts |
Edited by remmy1100
08/27/2010 2:22 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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I don't waste my time reading books written by just anyone, in fact I unfamiliar with any books authored by Roger, but I think that I have him figured out well enough to know that he would not include such a thing unless he had found it in the mint archives, so I will accept it as fact. As to why, I could only speculate, and that would lead nowhere. I do stand by my assertion that pressure adjustment would have been a futile effort though to whatever the goal was.
What an interesting 'break'.....is there something that I am missing through the extreme close up though? No preceding or trailing crack? Most unusual....It is widely considered that this is indeed a break, rather than something else? To me, it looks more like a enormous die chip, or die flaw (rather like a planchet flaw would on a coin). I would love to hold it in my hand.
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Pillar of the Community
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The break looks to be both a different color (through wear I imagine), and of a depth surpassing that of the letter engraving. How very odd, but still the lack of corresponding crack is quite the most intriguing aspect of this to me. Also, the first coin appears that growth has been realized beyond the second coin. Possibly a festering deep gouge rather than a traditional break? I have heard that the reverse die was used as the upper die in Peace dollar creation, but our researcher friend has found no such documentation in the archives to support such claim. I am considering just how this might affect this coin, as the hammer/anvil thing never set well with me. Folks say that the anvil took the lion's share of the impact, and while this may be true in the event of clash, it is not true in the instance of coin striking. The planchet acts as a pillow, (or buffer) between the dies, and the upper die will provide more bang for the buck than the lower die which merely absorbs limited impact through the planchet. The die with the greatest relieve should be the upper die, but if the upper and lower dies were switched for reason of bringing up the reverse design (which isn't going to happen anyway.....possibly a management decision), then I could see how someone might think that pressure adjustment might help or be in order. Edited by zeewool
08/27/2010 3:03 pm
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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
This is the LDS... the EDS started as a crack/break without any displaced metal and as the die progressed we got this massive and awesome break. AINT IT COOL? There is still a crack that goes from the end of the nose on the left down towards the leaves, but my camera aint so good. You are most correct about the crack/break, but the LDS is the more sought after. Now to BLOW YOUR MIND... which do you think is the later LDS? Peaceman taught me a good lesson on these.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2448 Posts |
Sorry, I'm only chimming in so I can find this again. Please continue it's facinating.
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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
Glad you like it. Hopefully folks are learning something.  Edited by remmy1100
08/27/2010 3:03 pm
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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
A couple more things to note... A Peace dollar (unlike the Morgan) was struck using the reverse as the hammer. As well with clashing (unlike the Morgan) all clashing transfer on a Peace dollar is incuse. Where Morgans Obverse clashing transfer is incuse, and reverse is raised. A couple more interesting facts and differences between the Morgan and Peace dollars. Edited by remmy1100
08/27/2010 3:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Yeah Mike, don't be a stranger. No need to be sorry or polite about anything either, you are always welcome as is everyone else, nobody owns a thread.
Well then Rem, I would say that the second picture might be the EDS due to length of the break, but without seeing the earliest crack that you mentioned, it would only be a 'guess' (so that is my loophole out of being 'wrong').
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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
As I would expect, BUT IT AINT. Eventually they tried to clean up the break... the latest examples show a perfect line that touches 3 full rays on the right side of the break. So the bottom is later than the top. It was an interesting conversation I had with Peaceman... I learned a lot here on CCF from him as he let me banter back and forth with him as to why I "thought" my coin was later die state than his. He is a cool guy.
Edited by remmy1100
08/27/2010 3:27 pm
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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
note... the bottom one does not touch 3 full rays like I am talking about... he (Peaceman) has one that does... I will see if I can dig up an image to show ya'll. and here it is...  Edited by remmy1100
08/27/2010 3:29 pm
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Posted 08/27/2010 1:46 pm
