| Author |
 Replies: 86 / Views: 7,055 |
|
|
|
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
right, but the mint could care less about rolls... they put them in 1000 count bags. the die life was the reason for the change. well documented. But yes, the 1921 peace did not stack well for bank rolls.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 3660 Posts |
Obviously, either the subject of Peace dollars has been overlooked here in the past, or there may be a subliminal urge burning within the hearts of you guys. For instance, would you rather see a coin with the head of Paris Hilton or Nancy Pelosi? For the girls, Alan Greenspan or Brad Pitt? Liberty looks like she just discovered Jenny Craig in 1921. |
|
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
Yes, she can have chubby cheeks in the full strike coins. I LOVE HER CHUBBY CHEEKS!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
No, I was referring to the stark differences in design between Morgan and Peace. She went from fat chick to hot chick as we may see her today, but at the time of the change over, I do believe that this was a general feeling of the average American, and the way that we wished to be perceived by the rest of the world.
Instead of an eagle with wings spread, (the appearance of readiness or imminence), now the wings are folded as in a state of serenity. Instead of a fat, confident Liberty, now a more lean, and beautiful woman emerging into an new dawn of peace and prosperity.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
It was more to do with the persons in charge of the design. I do not see this as not confident. (assuming since you stated the morgan liberty was confident, the peace isn't?) Hence the Tiara. She is more queen like than the more humble liberty on the Morgan. Both beautiful in their own right. I keep adding stuff.. sorry... Look at Lady Liberty throughout US coinage, she changes from heavy to lighter depending on the engravers design. Morgan was influenced by his heritage and I believe that showed in his work. Edited by remmy1100
08/27/2010 12:28 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Quote:
Instead of a fat, confident Liberty, now a more lean, and beautiful woman emerging into an new dawn of peace and prosperity. That is 'exactly' what I said Remmy, (or meant to say anyway). Again, I was referring to the differences in Morgan and Peace. If you think that de Francisci just designed whatever he wanted, I would argue that point, This design, possibly more so than any other, would have been micromanaged to the satisfaction of various tiers of statesmen and politicians. |
|
Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
By the way, Morgan did not design the Peace, he engraved it, with great difficulty in regard to relief just as he had experienced 43 years earlier with the Morgan that he did design.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
of course the design was not JUST his as you have pointed out and I agree with, but the influence of his background/heritage and artistic ability created her. Remember he won a contest to get the design on the coin. So it obviously needed to be re-worked. I am surprised being a friend of Rogers and the big peace guy he is that you havent (through osmosis if nothing else) become a Peace dollar expert. Morgan was tasked with engraving the de Francisci design but it was still de Francisci's design. And the final product vs. the contest entry were VERY close. (minus the broken sword of course) Edited by remmy1100
08/27/2010 12:46 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Roger and I have not always been friends and I am not impressionable enough to pick up the habits an hobbies of others on the basis that I respect people for who they are.
Anyway, the relief issue first became obvious on the mint director's desk as he stacked these '21s and noticed the teetering. Devices resting on devices of another coin caused Morgan to rework the relief issue. Not nearly as simple as grinding down the fields though. Depth of engraving adjusts coin weight, lower the relief and you wind up with a heavier coin. The hub must be reworked (remade) from scratch. The engraving is lightened, the design is changed with care and subtlety. Dies are made, coin is checked, coin is too light or too heavy, more calculations ensue, additional rays are added to compensate, more slight design changes, all to get the coin to weigh out with satisfactory relief.
Result is what I consider to be a beautiful design flawed by a low relief, viewed by most as weak strike.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
I was just pokin fun... Roger is a HUGE dude in Peace dollars. Anyway it was the problem dies that brought all that up in the first place. Yes the story you depict was said to happen, however mint docs "prove" that the change was due to die failures. (that was the official reason anyway) Edited by remmy1100
08/27/2010 1:09 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Show and tell about Peace with breaks and Cuds Remmy. That is the stuff that I really like. I would like to know more about the things that make Peace vams interesting to you. Like Morgans, without these abnormalities, they would be very boring indeed. I would think that if a solitary Peace is required for a type set though, then the 1921 is the way to go. |
|
Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Quote:Roger is a HUGE dude in Peace dollars. Oh, I really didn't know that....interesting. He knows that I am not interested in the coins as much as the stories surrounding the coins, so we don't discuss the coins themselves. Anyway, yes I have very little doubt that the '21 dies were subject to increased wear issues due to relief, but I do not see wear as a 'failure'..... Die failure, I would consider to be an annealing or material related problem. |
|
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
Oh we have much in common Lou. My favorite being the coin I posted which is the 1923-P VAM-1C "Tail on O". It is one of the most sought after Peace dollar VAMs. Many search for it, few find it. I have been VERY fortunate (a lucky dog if you will) finding this VAM. I am not a huge fan of the DD Peace dollars as the low relief just makes them uninteresting to me, (I do have them however) and there are 3 exceptions...the 1934-D and the 1923-P doubled tiara's DD's. but Breaks & some of the Cuds are simply breath taking. The progression thread that PeaceVamJunkie did for the 1924-P VAM-5A was great work. New progression in progress by Peaceman (who did the 1922-P VAM-1F Field Break) for the 1922-P VAM-5A Scarcheek. I am haphazardly working on the 1C progression but believe I will need mucho help from those who have them. (and it aint a coin you just send to anyone.) I would say that MOST of the exciting Peace dollars are on a List, however there are plenty of new discoveries... (I have a new break pending) that are post TOP50 that are awesome. Ummm where shall I go from here? |
|
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
Not that I disagree, I am basing my statement on known mint records. Whether or not that be the correct reason, it is the documented reason. As for die failures due to relief, high relief requires more pressure to strike... more pressure almost always equals less die life.
Edited by remmy1100
08/27/2010 1:22 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Pick a coin, show the interesting pup up close, the 1923-P VAM-1C "Tail on O" for instance. I want to know whatever there is to know about it. (Please).
|
| |
Replies: 86 / Views: 7,055 |
First Page
Posted 08/27/2010 12:08 pm
