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1794 Liberty Cap Cent

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delaner's Avatar
United States
870 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2010  9:08 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add delaner to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Okay, first of all, I know this coin is about as poor as it gets. It may be good for a lowball set for somebody, but for right now, it's just a learning piece for me. =)

I received the other day what was sold to me as a Sheldon-57 1794 Liberty Cap Large Cent. Upon receipt, I of course popped open my Sheldon book and to me it didn't look anything like an S-57. The date is totally obliterated - this is almost definitely a dug coin. It has some funny rainbow toning as well, as if it were heated over a lighter perhaps, and there is transparent tape residue on the bust and just below.

1794-Liberty-Cap-Cent

By the way, I haven't posted a picture of the reverse to save on bandwidth, but the reverse of this coin is totally obliterated. Not flat, but worse, flat and grainy and horrible AND then scratched heavily in the center! NOTHING can be made from it. And that's fine by me, knew that when I bought it.

You know you're a coin geek when...

Something about it looked all wrong. I thought it might be the denticles, which required quite a bit of maneuvering with my lights to even show... But I counted 7 from the center-line of the "L" to the center-line of the I. They're very faint, but I'm confident.

Turns out, on 1794's there are only five denticles in similar spacing. This here is a 1796 I do believe, and from what I can make out, Obverse 3, making it S-84, 85, 86, or 87. I'd grade it FR- obv, P- rev.

Does anybody think differently?

I also received this very day a real genuine 1794 LBLC (date completely readable, despite what the photograph shows), and the differences between this and the 1796, now that I have them both in-hand, are dramatic and obvious to say the least. This 1794 has great surfaces but again a completely obliterated reverse (just flat, not damaged this time), but the planchet is slightly smaller in radius but easily twice as thick. The "ONE HUNDRED FOR A DOLLAR" can just be made out around the edge. Pretty neat!

1794-Liberty-Cap-Cent

I weighed them both on my handy dandy scale and even though the 1794 weighs in well at 12.84g (compared to a mint weight of 13.49g), the 1796 is only 8.74g, comparable to a few well worn Fugios that I have but considerably lighter than the published mint weight of 10.89g. I mean, it's obviously a porous coin, but that's a lot of weight gone. I guess I'm not concerned.

As for the "real" 1794, my eyes are tired but I can't figure out its Sheldon number. I'd grade this one AG+ obv / P rev. The obverse is a lot nicer than my photo shows. Gotta work on that. I looked at Obverses 12, 17, 27, 29, 32, and 35 and am easily as sold on any of them. Anybody have any ideas?

Anyway, I'm quite proud of my growing stature as a coin geek today. :D yippeee... =)

Just thought I'd share.

And again, here they are side-by-side, for comparison's sake. =)

1794-Liberty-Cap-Cent
1794-Liberty-Cap-Cent
Edited by delaner
09/02/2010 9:19 pm
Rest in Peace
johnny54321's Avatar
United States
4849 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2010  12:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny54321 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
any pre 1800 US coin is extremely cool regardless of grade. Congrats!
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delaner's Avatar
United States
870 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2010  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add delaner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think we're on the same wavelength. Can somebody explain to me why a 1909-S VDB in poor will go for $200 - $300 while I can pick up a Washington era cent with about four times more copper for $50?
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KenKat's Avatar
United States
4085 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2010  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KenKat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No one is trying to complete a set of Liberty Cap cents while everyone is collecting Lincoln cents.

So, there's a ton of people who start a Lincoln collection, get hooked, and then need the 1909-S VDB to finish the set.

Probably only type set collectors are looking for Liberty Cap cents and even sometimes the type set collectors start with the Draped Bust given the difficulty and $$$ involved in taking a type set back into the 18th Century.

That's some history you've got there though - cool!


Edited by KenKat
09/03/2010 1:44 pm
Pillar of the Community
delaner's Avatar
United States
870 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2010  1:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add delaner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, I know - I actually did figure that out KenKat. The Lincoln set is utterly achievable, but, if you think about it, you can actually have an 18th century set in almost the same money as a full Lincoln Cent. It may not be nice, but it will be. I saw a '93 Chain sell on ebay a couple of weeks ago for $1500. It wasn't pretty, but it was genuine.

And as you noted, the history is pretty exciting. Nothing taken away from the history that happened during the Lincoln period, it's all been exciting times! Just blows me away... =)
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daviscfad's Avatar
United States
4541 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2010  12:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add daviscfad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
any pre 1800 US coin is extremely cool regardless of grade. Congrats!

I like all the pre 1800 coins also
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2010  11:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I concuron your "1794" It is definately a 1796 S-84 - 87. Unfortunately the obvdie does not deteriorate enout for die state information to help narrow it down.

As for your "real" 1794 try looking at NC-6, S-64, and S-65. whenever you see a very heavily worn 1794 with very strong obv denticals from 8:30 to 5:30 start thinking those three. The position of the 1 with respect to the hair wave matches as well. Those three varieties all share the same obv but the heavy obv denticals (Shielded Hair) typically don't appear on NC-6. They were the result of the obverse die not being in the press so that it's face was parallel th rev face. It happened to some extent on S-64 but because really noticable on S-65.
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delaner's Avatar
United States
870 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2010  9:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add delaner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You know Conder - I looked at NC-6 but dismissed it almost immediately as wishful thinking! I'll have another look at that and the other Sheldon numbers you suggested. Thank you!
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