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 Replies: 24 / Views: 4,395 |
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Moderator
 United States
23484 Posts |
I am not posting this to be political> It is here for your information. This law will affect any sellers of valuable coins in the US. If you want to take action or contact your political representative feel free to do so This tread will not allow political comments to be posted - They will be deleted!Feel free to post how you feel or what your plans are but do not get on political tangents- Thanks My personal feelings The law should be repealed and it should have never have been part of the "Health Care Bill" 1099 Fight Back in Congress By David L. Ganz, Numismatic NewsSeptember 02, 2010 This article was originally printed in Numismatic News."IRS reporting on rare coin purchases of $600 or more was approved by Congress and signed into law by President Obama as part of health care reform last March. The measure goes into effect Jan. 1, 2012, but not if the Industry Council for Tangible Assets, the Professional Numismatists Guild and the American Numismatic Association have anything to say about it. These groups, the nation's chamber of commerce and a host of other affected industries are in systemic rebellion against section 9006 of the Health Care bill, which would require 1099 forms to be issued where individuals or corporations make sales of $600 or more to coin dealers - a time-consuming, paper-intensive and intrusive process for all concerned. Two bills have been introduced to give a legislative solution. H.R. 5141 (introduced by Rep. Lungren) would repeal the bill outright, and a different approach is taken in S. 3578. The ANA board of governors voted in Boston at their convention to seek repeal of the measure. ICTA and PNG are being more aggressive, willing to utilize the lobbying power and congressional goodwill to seek remediation. A legislative push may not really come until next year. The bright spot, opponents acknowledge, is that the start date for implementation is in 2012. " italics and bold created by me
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
I won't report any sales of coins.... ever.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Count me into the dissenter crowd. I will as always when I see government going out of control I will write and call my US senators and representatives.
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
Wheezy - it's not for sales of coins. It's for when a dealer purchases coins. If he buys more than $600 during the year from any one person - he must issue a 1099. He already has to issue one to his landlord, along with anyone else he pays more than $600 for services during a year.
No dealer is going to be issuing 1099s to any customers they sell to, just the ones they buy from.
All this law did was expand existing law. Existing law is a 1099 must be issued to to any unincorporated vendor who performs $600 worth of services. This includes landlords, attorneys, exterminators, the neighbor kid who cleans the shop on weekends - anyone the business pays more than $600 for services.
The expanded law simply expands it to include goods and now includes corporations. So, if the business buys more than $600 worth of office supplies from Office Max, the business would issue a 1099 to Office Max.
This law affects every single business out there - not just coin dealers. Coin dealers have got their knickers in a twist simply because everyone likes the anonymity that has previously been the rule. There are plenty of other businesses that will be impacted more than coin dealers.
Unfortunately, I don't see this going away for several reasons (most of them political so I'll just stop there).
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Valued Member
United States
365 Posts |
Thank you, Waredu, for giving some lucid explanation on this matter. Folks keep making panicky posts to CCF about this change, feeling threatened by "Big Government".
I'm not saying I'm in favor of expanding taxation into small-scale transactions that may add to the paperwork of some, and may not otherwise be of much benefit, but I have no respect for coin dealers who work completely off the books, like some of the dealers at coin shows in my area (and I suspect many more everywhere else). Paying taxes is part of doing business in the US, and not a matter of political persuasion, last time I checked-- unless you happen to have an address in the Cayman Islands, apparently.
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New Member
Canada
39 Posts |
Whatever the purpose of this measure, $600 seems an arbitrarily low threshold.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
717 Posts |
If the bill is so good, why did they have to tack it on to a completely unrelated bill?
I could just see some Congressional pinhead saying to himself, "Let's see. I've got this stinko bill, so I'll just include it on to the 2,000 page Health Care Bill & hope nobody notices it."
Edited by yechi7
09/05/2010 06:01 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19935 Posts |
NO NEW TAXES! NO BIG GOVERNMENT!
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Anytime any government has to stoop to hiding one law into larger law, always makes me question the law which was hidden.
As an American living in the UK, I am not sure who I could write to about it.
What happens if I purchase over $600 worth of stuff from one company in a year?
What happens with non-US tax payers who might spend over £600 with one place while on holiday?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
613 Posts |
What is it with the number 600? The moose club has a $599 bucket so you don't have to pay taxes.
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Valued Member
United States
499 Posts |
The effect to the dealer is just more paperwork. The effect to the individual on the other hand is that they must now worry about paying capital gains on anything they sell to the dealer. Now that windfall for the guy that finds a bunch of silver coin while roll searching will also be a windfall for the government as they get to tax everyting over face value on those transactions. That collection you inherited from grandpa when you were eight years old will now be heavily taxed if you cash it in in an emergency. The real impact in this case is not to the the business but to the individual, that is what makes this different then the previous enforcement of the issuing of 1099's. Richard |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts |
I wouldnt worry too much about this. I anticipate compliance to be in the neighborhood of 0.1%
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Pillar of the Community
United States
573 Posts |
The report I saw on this law was that the gov't expected to collect an add'l $18 billion a year in taxes. Do you still think it won't affect you? Businesses don't pay taxes, they just pass the cost along to their customers, resulting in higher proces for us. Just another job-killing, economy-killing law by the buffoons in Washington.
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
Kena - you, as an individual, purchasing something is not covered under this law.
Ziggy - nowhere will the difference between face and bullion value be reported. The guy who finds a bunch of silver coin and sells it to a dealer will receive a 1099 from said dealer. You, as an individual, may or may not owe taxes on the transaction - just like you do now.
nod2003 - don't count on that. The penalty for non-filing is currently $50 per instance. Most businesses have to go through an annual audit from an accounting firm - that firm will make sure the business does its 1099 reporting. Any coin dealer that is incorporated or public, or deals with bullion from the Mint, or has a loan at a bank will be required to have this audit. Go ask your local coin dealer who deals in bullion whether or not he has to have an annual financial audit from a CPA - see what he says.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
This bill does affect the private citizen, If you sell 601.00 worth of coins to a dealer he is by law required to issue YOU a 1099 misc income form, you are then required to report that income on your tax return.
This law affects every person who may sell anything for more than 600 dollars, we are just coin collectors so we focus on coins, but the sold Item may very well be a car, a guitar or a pocket knife, it does not matter you will be required to report any amount gained over 600 dollars because the person you sold it to will or can be required to file a 1099 on your behalf with the government.
I worked as a sub contractor for close to 30 years of my life , all of my income was counted off of 1099 forms, its acumulative and adds to the rest of your income, you will be taxed on the transaction.
dealers will be required to keep records of all of your small sales and once they reach the magic 600 He will be required to issue the 1099 if those transactions fall within 1 year.
He will have added cost for book keeping, many will fail due to those costs.
take your coins to a pawn shop, if you lose them and the value is more than 600 expect to get a 1099 from the pawn shop, the reaches of this bill are really unknown as the language is non specific and unlimited in scope as usual.
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
Metalman, yes the bill affects private citizens - I've never said otherwise. Private citizens will not be issuing 1099s to anyone - they would only receive one.
Receiving a 1099 is not necessarily a taxable event though. If you purchase something for $590 and turn around and sell it to a dealer for $610 - the dealer will issue a 1099 for $610. Any taxes you owe will be based on $20 - not $610. This is true even today though - although most people ignore it. Now the government will simply know about the transaction. I repeat, the tax burden on an individual will not change under the law. But now the government will know if you don't report it.
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Replies: 24 / Views: 4,395 |
Posted 09/04/2010 10:19 pm
