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 Replies: 123 / Views: 9,874 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
First I'd like to say I've really enjoyed reading this ongoing thread of threads. Totally mind expanding to say the least. And, as I've previously written on this awesome website, and I truly mean awesome, I've collected for 40+ years. With this being said, this is the 1st time I've heard of any interest in this topic. Why/or what is the deep interest of microscopic/minimal errors? Am I making sense here? Is there a real $ value or numismatic value/concern?... Thanks ahead for reply....
Sincerelly
Erik
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
I'm just getting home after a long drive,,,,And vams, who really cares any way's?I guess that like asking any of the numismatic collectors who likes something different........they all have there errors and pay handsomely for them for who know's why, except, there are usually not many of them ....So it is with the Morgan dollar series, with the exception in the technology of 100 plus years ago. they had there hands full of trying to perfect a conscistent replication of the product..The Morgan dollar..with in this series, there are more than 4,000 errors, my meaning in general that there are more than 4,000 error types or classifications of known inconsistancies from what should have been a normal minting process.. But due to the ERA of there known processes of how to mint a coin, in these years they were plagues with multiple troubles in how to produce vast numbers of coinage to meet the demand needed on the "street" than what a mint could actually produce in a consistant manner..This fact of needed over production required the mint to over extend its capabillities in order to try to meet the production numbers needed due to the congressional law.. I believe this was the pitman act, but I could easily be in error..... either way.. Its a beautiful coin with many obvious, and many non obvious errors, in which many of the vammers spend many hours researching the why and how. and the pimples which can define that special rare VAM....Not unlike the Wide AM penny....If you do not search.. you can not find it...... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2373 Posts |
Well said aladinslamp! Its the thrill of the hunt and finding one that has some particular oddity that isn't quite right. I'm not blessed with total recall so it takes hours of study to remember some of the pick-up-points. When I stop at a coin shop chances are pretty good that I'm buying some Morgans as long as the price is reasonable. I generally look for the quirks since my recall is a little short. That is when the fun starts. I get to go home with the treasure and identify it, numerous times with the help of others here at CCF. I have been very fortunate this past year finding several really nice and desirable VAMS. Vamworld has been an extremely valuable asset to me and others as well. nlp
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
There are some VAM's that tripple the value of the coin or more and then there are some that doesn't add any value except to the person who found them. It is all in what you like collecting but some do add value. As little as 5 years ago you hardly ever heard a discussion about VAM's but it has grown rather popular with Morgan and Peace dollar collectors since then. I don't expect someone that has collected Lincoln Cents all their life to even know what the term VAM means because it doesn't pertain to their collecting style, but most Morgan/Peace Dollar collectors will have at least heard about them even if they don't actively search for them (but most people I know do). A few years ago this forum didn't have a VAM section and there was so much interest in this type of collecting that one was warranted and was added because there were allot of VAM questions in the classic section. A hoarder of silver dollars probably will not care what VAM a coin is just as a bullion collector/dealer wont, but if you care about the whole process of how these shiny big silver coins were minted and the history behind them you learn all you can about them and VAM's is a huge part of how the minting process effects the coins themselves |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2448 Posts |
Quote:There are some VAM's that triple the value of the coin or more and then there are some that doesn't add any value except to the person who found them. I do believe he said it all in the opening sentence. Well put! While in some cases "greed is good" (  had to put that in there); for me it's personal satisfaction from the hunt.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
Vamming is numismatic forensics. I found a 1879-S in a PCGS holder marked MS 65 for one hundred seventy dollars in a dealers case in the summer of 2004. The coin was a reverse of 1878. It means the coin is dated 1879-S with a reverse of 1878. Somebody will come along and tell you what that means and how much the coin is worth. Lots of people had an opportunity to see and purchase that coin. None recognized its value.
Edited by Ozland
10/11/2010 4:05 pm
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Were you the lucky buyer Terry?
I did not know that this in itself was anything special....could you please elaborate a bit on the significance of the '78 reverse with the '79 date?
edited to add:
What 'is' a reverse of 1878? Would it be 8TF (Feb 1878).....or 7/8TF (March 1878), or 7TF (also March 1878)? I have heard the term before, but I do not know what it means.
Edited by zeewool
10/11/2010 2:41 pm
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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
Edited by remmy1100
10/11/2010 3:01 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1551 Posts |
Zee the reverse of a 1978 has a very different bird and arrow feathers. If you look at a normal 1878 7 TF coin the breast is some what flat and the feathers on the arrows are str-8. The 1879 and up has a very different reverse. I will up load a few pick's in a few, I am on the wrong putter!. All 1879 with a 1878 reverse coins are Top 100 coins and a MS-65 would make it even better! Great pic OZ!  1878 reverse is on the right side on the first photo the 1878 is on the left on the second photo   Edited by twohawks
10/11/2010 3:23 pm
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Thanks very, very much Mike & Russ......Three things you guys have taught me today....I had heard of rev of 78, the parallel feathers, and the flat breast but never knew what any of them were until right now. (The flat breast doesn't really look as bad as I had imagined it might). Thanks again, both of you.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
the reverse of 78 goes up to 1880. If you find a 1880-CC with the parallel feather it also has the reverse of 1878 and worth quite a premium over a regular 1880-CC. There is also 1878 with the reverse of 79 (VAM-200 and above) and as was mentioned above a 79 with the reverse of 78, its all in that top feather that you look for
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
Zee I bought that coin. I didn't have my loup with me at the time or reference material. I thought it was reverse of '78 and it was. I was shocked to learn its true value. I bought a MS 62 1891-P Morgan dollar that was graded by NGC. It had striations on the breast. It cross graded it to PCGS MS 64 as it should have. It is VAM 9 Edited by Ozland
10/11/2010 4:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Oooo, more handy info....Thanks Bryan. I am definitely in learning mode today....quite a change from mouth running mode (which you all know is my preferred gear). Yes sir, I am very happy for you Terry.....belated as it may be.....  Would I be wrong in assuming that this PAF short nock is what is left of the original 1878 7TF hub after the nock broke off of the arrow shaft7 Quote:I bought a MS 62 1891-P Morgan dollar that was graded by NGC. It had striations on the breast. It cross graded it to PCGS MS 64 as it should have. It is VAM 9 Okay Terry, not to let my ignorance precede me, let me ask.....what is the relevance here? Also, I seem to have forgotten what striations are when referring to coins. Are they supposedly die related or coin specific? |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1554 Posts |
Thanks Remmy1100 for the link. Thanks to Twohawks for the photo. Also thanks to the rest of you all for the input. ...I guess I am going to have to catch up on this as 3/4 of my collection value is in Peace and Morgans. I only have looked at the subject of VAMs as an oddity and too complex, something I couldn't or didn't want to get interested in. But with all of what I've learned so far from you folks, it is sparking interest. All this new information does seem quite overwhelming, I'm way behind.
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Okay....so I guess that signals the successful hijacking of this thread. edited to add: Sorry Erik  Edited by zeewool
10/11/2010 4:57 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
The relevance Zee is this. If you can't grade, don't VAM. If you don't like varities don't VAM. if you have an eye for detail you can find hidden rarities of great value sitting in dealer cases if you know what to look for. I bought a PCGS 1878-P MS 62PL for one hundred sixty two dollars recently. It was a VAM 23 crazy lips whose value is about five hundred dollars. The 1891-P that I bought for seventy-eight dollars with striations (MS 82) is valued at over seven hundred dollars in mint state 64. The 1879-S reverse of 78 in mint state 65 is valued at over eight thousand dollars. I would say vamming has relevance. Edited by Ozland
10/11/2010 5:06 pm
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Replies: 123 / Views: 9,874 |
Posted 10/11/2010 08:06 am
