Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. 300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Why Collect VAMs

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 1,785Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
Ozland's Avatar
United States
709 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2010  3:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ozland to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
From Jeff Oxman's website: VAMlink.com

VAMs...
Why Do I Collect 'Em, When My Friends Call Me Crazy!


It's not easy being a VAM collector! First of all, most of your coin collecting friends don't understand what it is you're raving about when your eyes light up and your pulse races at finding a "Hot Lips" 1888-O or a 1901-P "Shifted Eagle." Sure it would be nice if they shared your excitement, but you might as well be speaking the language of Martian Invaders.

Other friends tout the future of more "solid" numismatic items, like slabbed Morgan dollars. "What's wrong with a PCGS slabbed 1880-S in MS65 condition?" they might ask. You can't help but respond, "Well, I seem to recall that in 1985 (pulling a December 12, 1985 Greysheet out of the top drawer), MS65 '80-S Morgans traded hands for about $500!" Now you can lean back and relax, because you've set them up for: "But today I can buy 'em all day long for less than two hundred bucks!" So much for the guaranteed potential of "mainstream" numismatics!

And we could go on. Even your favorite local coin dealer probably isn't the least bit interested in silver dollar die varieties. In the first place, he knows little or nothing about them, and in his mind at least, it wouldn't be "cost effective" to take the time to learn the intricacies of VAM collecting. Secondly, the market is too thin to make it profitable, in any case. It's much easier for a dealer to meet his overhead costs (The rent must be paid!) by purchasing coins cheap and selling at a nice profit. VAMs? Who needs 'em?

A Little Historical Perspective

To put things in perspective, remember that for much of the 19th century hobbyists did not even collect U.S. coins by mintmark. It's hard to believe, but prior to the time of A.G. Heaton's treatise on Branch Mints in 1893, an uncirculated 1889-P silver dollar was generally as desirable as an 1889-CC! No one could have predicted that mintmarks would take on the overriding importance that they have today. Now, for a top end specimen, those two little "cc" letters on the reverse would make a tremendous difference -- $250 for a Gem BU 1889-P to upwards of $250,000 for a Gem BU 1889-CC!

And if mintmarks were less than critical to the 19th Century mind, imagine what their reaction would have been to learn that "die varieties" would come into such great prominence in the late 20th Century. You may not be aware of the fact, but die varieties now rank among the most valuable and sought-after coins in every 20th Century series.

Shaking your head in disbelief? Look no further than the 1969-S doubled die Lincoln Cent -- I sold an XF for $7500 a few years back! Compare this to the historic King of Lincolns, the 1909-S VDB, which is worth only a few hundred dollars in the same condition. In the Buffalo nickel series, the price of the 1916/1916 has stampeded its way up to $20,000 in MS63 condition. And it's not just cents and nickels. The same holds true for 1942/1-P and 1942/1-D Mercury dimes, which are among the top five dates in that series. And lastly, don't forget the 1918/17-S Standing Liberty quarter which is a $7000+ item in BU. Even when it comes to modern proof sets, the "no mintmark" sets are valued at several hundred times their non-variety counterparts.

VAMs in the Future

The point is this. Numismatics is clearly moving in the direction of more and more specialized knowledge. The hobbyist today is inundated with detailed information about every conceivable segment of numismatics, from early Coppers to late date Commems. But such information is not only important, it equates to an almost fanatical enjoyment within specialized segments of the market. The evidence for this is that specialty coin clubs, such as the Society of Silver Dollar Collectors, have been booming, especially during periods like this when the overall market is "red hot."

It then follows that if greater and greater detailed knowledge about every coin series is the wave of the future, then the new millennium could bring a wildfire of interest to Morgan and Peace dollar varieties. Indeed, the Variety Revolution is well under way. The 1887/6 overdates from Philadelphia and New Orleans have only been known since the mid-1970's (Yes, it was that recent!), and yet, like the heavy hitters of other series, are already superstars among the key date silver dollars. Would you believe the 1887/6-O is already $23,000 to $26,000 in MS65 condition? Likewise the 1882-O/S is a $25,000 item in MS65! Furthermore, both are now considered a necessary part of any non-variety set of Morgan dollars.

Somethin's Got a Hold on Me...

All would agree that the days are long gone when pocket change can provide a rare date Lincoln Cent or a Buffalo nickel. So where is the adventure? The answer is widely known as "cherry-picking." Armed with more specific detailed knowledge about one aspect of numismatics than whomever they're dealing with, the "cherry-picker" can find a coin that is rarer, in absolute terms, than any coin in a dealer's inventory, yet not pay a single cent extra for it!

But even though collecting VAMs can be lucrative, it must be said that financial gain is rarely the full story in VAM collecting. Rather, it is the quest for discovery that holds the allure. This writer receives countless parcels containing what each sender thinks is a new discovery or some ultra-rarity. Most aren't, but more importantly, a few are! And that's what keeps VAM collecting interesting. It's the thrill of the hunt!

Time has shown that VAM collecting is the ultimate arena for "cherry-picking." It is now a well-known story how a West Coast dealer found an 1878 7/8-TF coin in his inventory which he probably purchased for less than a hundred dollars, and then sold the same coin on ebay $10,000. Obviously, this is an unusual story, after all, there aren't many VAM 44s in existence! But the point is that KNOWLEDGE once again proved to be the most valuable investment weapon in the numismatic arsenal.

Article written by Jeff Oxman Last Updated: May 2006 ... All rights Reserved
Moderator
Learn More...
SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2010  01:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What I don't understand is why anyone would consider Jeff's words to be expressing an "extraordinary" attitude. This is what we do.

Of course, that's an indictment of me as much as it is a question of anyone else. But there's a difference between a "collector" and a "numismatist." My choice of terms may be disagreeable; the difference in attitude is intuitive. Some of us are simply_not_satisfied with knowing "it's a coin." That's not enough. Value, grade, date, mintmark, all is insufficient. I want to know every microscopic detail of the coin, and how that does or does not differ from every single coin struck in that series, much less that year. I want to know the name of the guy who was running the press the moment my coin was struck. I want to know the names of his kids, and I want an address for a relative I can write a letter to today, to thank them for their ancestor's effort.

I want The One. The One which is unique, different from all others and the only one which has ever existed, regardless of what molecular level I must descend to in order to achieve this goal.

I am not just a collector. I am not alone. Jeff speaks the plain truth, and it ain't rocket science.
Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2010  2:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have heard it explained as forensics of Morgan and Peace dollar collecting and I think that describes it best. Where you know there is a difference between every coin struck no matter how minor. its the knowledge behind it that can keep you one step ahead of others or always following what others have already found. I have only ever been credited with one discovery but can tell you the feeling of seeing something that no on else ever noticed and being able to determine the differences is really exciting. I may never "discover" another one but I have a memory that will last for the rest of my life
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
twohawks's Avatar
United States
1551 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2010  8:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twohawks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bryan, Your's is with out question one of the neatest finds anyone will ever have. What was it 46 years in the waiting? Great eye!
Pillar of the Community
aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2010  01:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First off.......I must mention that Byrans find is tremendous. it all comes down to this............
weather I collect lincolns of morgans there are error coins out there that MANY search for......in this sample, it is a morgan, and mind you I am not putting this down, but rather showing there is a great following for all errors in coinage...........NOT JUST MORGANS
now Morgans may have many more errors for the series but every
denomination has its errors.........
so I won't imply a denominal interest or per say who's who for value....as each denomination has its own adjenda........by the way
just what is an adjenda............
Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2010  05:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
just what is an adjenda...

It's spelled "agenda". It's the plural form of the Latin word, "agendum" meaning "that which ought to be done". So an agenda is a list of things which ought to be done.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2010  11:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
actually there is a difference between a error and a variety (which a VAM is). I collect varieties but could care less for errors. A 1955/55 Lincoln Cent is a veriety, a Cud on a coin is a error. If every coin struck with those same specific dies has the same attributes its a "Variety" if (lets use the Cud again) a hunk of the die fell out and left a blank space on the coin and made the Cud and its different that the coin before it with the metal still attached to the die then its an "Error"
Pillar of the Community
Ozland's Avatar
United States
709 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2010  6:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ozland to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would recommend people collect vams because they enjoy varieties. Any other reasons absent that, and you will be disappointed.
It is a hobby. Enjoy it for what it is.
Moderator
Learn More...
SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 11/29/2010  01:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Variety collectors are a subset of coin collectors; I'd be surprised if they comprised a simple majority. It's not for everyone. In fact, I've often wondered how many stupendous discoveries are held in the substantial holdings of serious collectors who just don't do varieties; it is for this reason that I generally don't place much stock in the rarity estimates of upper-grade varieties. If we're sure there are no more than ten of it, chances are there are five more held by people who will never know.
Pillar of the Community
Morgans Dad's Avatar
United States
5604 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2010  03:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All coin collecting is knowledge. I also love to research the "Anna's and Theresa's"( Morgans and Peace) Dollars, for many reasons, some already stated, because I enjoy the "hunt and thrill" once capable of knowing the difference between a slabbed coin and a sweet cherry-picked find in some vendors stock.

The idea that knowledge does assist me in this sub-hobby is a reward in it self, I also collect many other coins and currency, but for the last few years the term "VAMS" has my attention and I love every moment of the entire adventure. I also collect and hunt these coins, because I can and have what I believe here is an amazing amount of fellow hunters of the same and while I am just a sprout in this field, I know I can call upon some of the more experienced "hunters"
on this site for assistance in most any question.

I know this branch of this hobby is more addicting than most things I have ever encountered before and take pride in that research, reading, patience, knowledge and understanding will, along with opinions of my fellow collectors, bring me the rewards of peace and relaxation, this ALL brings me and I also seek..............
Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2010  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
every denomination has its errors.........
so I won't imply a denominal interest or per say who's who for value....as each denomination has its own adjenda........by the way
just what is an adjenda............


An adjenda is the hierarchy of leaders within a religious group, cult, (or denomination).

For instance, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker became the hidden adjendas of the PTL Club when Jim took his television ministry off the air and decided to spread the good word under the guise of incarceration.

Jim Jones became the hidden adjenda of the People's Temple when he demonstrated that he was capable of simultaneously preaching and drinking Kool Aide.

David Koresh, (head adjenda of the Branch Davidians), proved that the Gospel and firearms do not mix, (thus alleviating the Mythbusters of the challenge).

The list goes on, but basically, I think that you are correct Gene....I guess that the primary adjendas actually are errors....I am not familiar with these Morgans that you speak of though....Who is their main adjenda?
Edited by zeewool
12/07/2010 11:07 pm
Pillar of the Community
aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2010  12:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ZEE............your words spring such truth to those who would take such advantage of those who have hope.........and have not truly seeked the truth them selves.......but rather expect the truth to be revealed to them and except it as it is presented..........but this IS NOT THE TRUTH.......AS YOU KNOW....your words show us how many sheep there are waiting for the words or the listings to be stated for them......and excepted as they are stated.......but WE know HERE WE QUESTION.............and there are many that followed but we speak out to show the truth and ask these questions so they don't follow like blind mice......
Pillar of the Community
aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2010  12:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yes every coinage, pennies, dimes, nickles ect... have errors but these VAM's are ours....ours studies.....our mark on the Morgan world.....IS IT FOR MONEY OR IS IT FOR FUN.....every denomination must answer the same thing.....the more popular the more Prophetic? I don't think so....but it is a game where the money is played.....
Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2010  12:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Golly Gene, I was just joking around....if you saw any truth or meaning in that stuff, you are a much deeper thinker than I....(and that is kinda scary)...


Quote:
IS IT FOR MONEY OR IS IT FOR FUN


It is all about FUN ......Yeah.......definitely fun Buddy.
Pillar of the Community
aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2010  02:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
actually I am ........I know to well.......what your talking about. and love to HERE IT AGAIN SAM,, WE speak the same lingo....and want to devel into beyond the norm. as its insites effect the whole......I have time....
Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2010  06:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
  Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 1,785Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.56 seconds to rattle this change. Forums