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 Replies: 44 / Views: 5,604 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
576 Posts |
I attended the Oshawa coin show today. Lots of customers. Most of them seeming to be interested in silver sets of one sort or another. I was there mainly to sell and put in some time looking for Victoria large cent varieties. I sold everything I had except Victoria large cent varieties as shown in the recent Charlton's price guide. I tried to sell some of these to four dealers and none bit. That's fine. I got the expected answers - "if they're not in trends we can't depend on reselling them" and "you should have these certified" which is good common sense. I picked up three variety coins cheaply. Remarkably, one of them attributed. A great VF punch around the clock 1881 for $20. It books for $200 and yet the dealer even having it properly labelled seemed to care less about the low pricing for such a great coin. So I wonder is it strictly a matter of trends inclusion that will help various Victoria large cent varieties take off?
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Valued Member
Canada
153 Posts |
The renewed interest in Vicky Large Cent varieties is a relatively recent developement. Variety collecting became very popular in the 60's & 70's thanks to Hans Zoell's publications/articles and both Jack Griffin and James Haxby starting their remarkable journies into this collecting niche. It nearly died off through the 80's & 90's as MS and certification collectors took hold. In the late 90's a small cadre of us variety collectors got together after finding the CCRS website and starting writing about "discoveries" and posting photos/scans of things out-of-the-ordinary. The power and speed of the internet allowed information to be passed rapidly, easily and cheaply between collectors and private mini-research projects between individuals began to be connected together. Rob Turner began his 3 books on the early large cents and Bill Cross at Charlton started putting a different denomination for varieties in the back of each individual issue. Friends at Trends started listing important varieties due to renewed interest (obverses especially) and accurate populations of scarcities were used to feed the Trends entries, with individual hoards combined to achieve random samples into the hundreds. Articles were written for the CN Journal. Internet communication combined with large coin show popularity allowed a growing number of variety collectors to meet and formulate plans/goals, especially the last 2 Torex's in downtown T.O. and the CNA in Niagara Falls. In a little over 10 year's time, variety collecting has grown by leaps and bounds .. even collectors to other dedicated Canadian areas are aware of and pick up Large Cent varieties and have opened up interst in the 5, 10, & 25 cent coinages. 11 years ago, there were less than 20 people on the CCRS site, now there's over 1700. 10 years ago you could easily find 1884 Obv 1's in dealer junk and half-price boxes and, except for 9/8's, #1's & #2's, you could get ANY VF 1859 for $3 or so. It will take time for everything to reach Trends and dealer pricing increases .. it is a very long slow process. But, as new collectors are priced out of the heavily advertised MS/TPG coin market and the bubble bursts in the bizzaro-world of MS67+ modern issue coinages, more people will return to classic coins again. Those who dropped out 20-25 years ago will return because variety collecting has regained its shine and new collectors will start a facinating collecting arena where affordability and knowledge reign, rather han slick advertising. Have patience Tamarin .. things are moving quite nicely and you should be in the accumulation mode, not in the "the price is too low" mode.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
576 Posts |
R2bR2c, a wise answer! Thank you! Varieties are one of the most enjoyable areas of collecting. Searching for them is most of the fun. The large cent series is a great place to be. The coins are large and beautiful. Appreciation has to be extended to you and all those who have worked so hard to shed light on and promote this area of collecting. Thanks for all your work! I'll have to be patient as you say but I'm not a kid anymore. I'll be sixty soon and at some point I'll just be a geezer. Hope that holds off for a year or two! I enjoy the search. As I've said here before I've never found an orphan 1884 C-1 at various places I've looked in the past. Not one. I've found my share of the 1859 varieties and the 1891 varieties but the 1884 has always eluded me. I'll keep looking and hopefully trends will recognize more of the Victorian varieties in the years ahead. If coins like the 1949 A on denticle cent can get listed, surely good news is on the way.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2661 Posts |
I would just sit back and snatch up these little darlings up at bargain prices before everyone stands up and takes notice. It is a shame that you were not able to sell your unwanted coins in order to generate funds to buy ones you wanted.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
576 Posts |
I like the hunt. That's for sure. And I like single date and single variety collecting a lot. I also enjoy selling. I read the threads from collectors here who want to share their best coins. I enjoy them but I can't participate because I don't have one. Because if I did I'd have sold it. I always worry about a crash in the economy that will destroy the collecting markets. It's a good time to sell so I sell. It was interesting yesterday - and it shows the value of certification - when I sold some MS-63 George V nickels (that I'd had certified) to two separate dealers. These were the same nickels they'd refused to buy at an earlier show when the coins were raw. They'd insisted they were only VF's and EF's. So, of course, they had little value. This series constantly surprises. Very hard to grade but lustre is an excellent indicator. It's just too bad that I have to have ICCS confirm my opinion. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
R2: Re: the variety collectors that you say weened off decades ago: why would they not stay in the market when it was down? Just because other people don't like one's coin one can't give up. "Trends" is pretty well named. The highly publicized (and prettiest) package will win most of the time.
"It's just too bad that I have to have ICCS confirm my opinion."
That's not always a bad thing, but it does cost money for that nod of approval.
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Valued Member
Canada
153 Posts |
Oh, I think that they were still looking all the time ... it's just that new bodies didn't, or were reluctant to, join in since that collecting niche was no longer in vogue. There also were no real new, widely available references ... just the beginnings of the field. Look at everything that has come out now and should be a part of everyone's libraries. There are 3 new books really worth having, a few more for general interest and at least two major major research projects coming along and no, I can't tell you what they are. Add to that, the plethora of websites where questions can be immediately answered or clarified. Recent price increases will make collecting high-grade old coinage out of the reach of most collectors, the same way it happened in the US starting 30 years ago. People with money will look elsewheer for more bang for the buck. Vicky varieties of all denominations will become much more popular than it is now, with Edwards close behind. And Tamarin . .if you want to get varieties certified, go to CCCS, since they recognize and attribute far far more varieties than ICCS ever will. Also, drop by at Torex where there will be some dedicated variety collectors of different denominations there.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Quote:
I would just sit back and snatch up these little darlings up at bargain prices before everyone stands up and takes notice. Yeah...I'm sorta glad I can pick-up an 1884 cent with portrait 1 for a few bucks.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
576 Posts |
R2bR2c, I will get them certified. I've heard good things about CCCS but never used them. I do notice at the few coins shows I attend that ICCS is still dominant in certified coins on display. But I need labels to make variety coins acceptable to dealers. One thing I fear is that with certification companies certifying varieties some varieties now thought scarce might be seen as less so and the prices will cave in future Charlton's. I picked up another 1882 doubling variety at the coin show I attended recently, giving me four of them. Three with the die chip in C to confirm them. Certification - and population collection - does not bode well for that coin's price.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
"It's just too bad that I have to have ICCS confirm my opinion."
Going back to this. If you wanted to sell that variety coin, you would either need it to be certified to get more money, or you would sell it to another collector who would agree with you that it is what it is and you might still get the same amount for it because afterall that collector won't need it to be certified in order to simply buy it.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
576 Posts |
You're right. But finding Victorian variety collectors is probably pretty challenging. Maybe, a variety fair or show should be organized by someone on here and I might actually try to get to it if it's outside this area.
Edited by tamarin
10/18/2010 12:19 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
153 Posts |
Tamarin .. Variety collectors, at least 3-4, will be at this weekend's Torex and I'll do the introductions. As with most of the Winter Torex shows, I'll be wearing my lucky red flannel shirt (great finds when I wear it).... and I'll be there when it opens Saturday, then the PM pub and then the show& tells in the evening.
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Valued Member
United States
459 Posts |
Tamarin, Speaking personally there are some variety collectors that would almost prefer them raw, I like to see my coins without plastic wrap. So if and when you decide to sell some keep us in mind also. Enjoy the hunt!
I'm hoping someday there will be a nice venue for trading (buy/selling also) large cent varieties.
Edited by nybird
10/18/2010 1:25 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
576 Posts |
R2bR2c, I can't make Torex this weekend. But I am tired of missing it. I've been asked to go there before other years and I've never been there. Shame on me! I'll try my best to attend the next one. Nybird, I love raw coins. I acknowledge grading services have a place but the immediacy of a raw coin is much of what the hobby is about. Let's hope for a varieties trading fair sometime in the future! Meanwhile, let's enjoy the hunt!
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Valued Member
Canada
153 Posts |
Most variety collectors that I know DO B, S, & T amongst themselves, since most are hoarders and will have multiples of lots of things.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
576 Posts |
R2bR2c, hoarders are a special breed. If I had all the large cents I've had and sold in the past, I'd have a pile. I still have too many and I'm always looking for more. But those hoarders I've known in the past usually have a few favourites and give priority to them. Do you have a favourite?
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Replies: 44 / Views: 5,604 |
Posted 10/17/2010 07:34 am
