Mexico, 1760 Ocho Reales

If he does reply, and I can get the police department interested, guess who I'm taking with me when I go visit him ... ?

From the pictures it is impossible to tell if it is real. The 1760 is one of the early dates that were forged before techniques improved. The worst version has a die break on the Dos Mundos side which runs from the globes to the right side at or near 3 o'clock.

pls - I am always open to odd "discoveries". Check out my post on the Colonel Green Inventory on the Main Forum to see what can actually fall into your lap.

You are correct to be cautious but keep and open mind and try to ask leading questions.

I recall a while ago, I took a flyer on a poorly photographed coin from a new seller who obviously didn't have a clue. I won the coin for under $20 - few bidders for an obvious fake. But the coin was real an 8R dated 1826 and a very high grade coin worth over $400. So it can happen. I also once bought a "Bunch of Old Mexican Coins". That is all the auction said a "Bunch of Old Mexican Coins". I wrote asking the obvious questions but got "STRANGE" answers. The seller seemed honest just not willing or able to help much with answers. They did want to talk and seemed lonely. So I bid about $40 on a hunch - won for about $30 and got 24 Cap and Ray coins along with some silver Pesos. Rock bottom value was over $1000. I offered to send more money but the seller was HAPPY. I wrote for a while but eventually there were no more answers. Never figured out what happened but I assumed the person died.

So you never know and I always keep my options open - so far it has worked well for me. Remember always be open and honest and it will return to you.

But then again, I am intentionally buying fakes so when someone thinks they have "tucked it to me" they have really stuck it to themselves in most cases.

pls - I would tell her immediately NOT TO CLEAN the coin and why. If she is honest she will appreciate that. If you can meet her great. In hand you can see what it is. Just remember NOT all counterfeits are worthless. A circulating contemporary forgery of a Pillar dollar is likely worth far more than a real coin of the same date and condition.

Hey swamperbob, That bunch of cap & rays you say you got for $30, all I can say is WOW! Hopefully some day I get a good deal to pay off the countless hours I spend scouring ebay looking for a steal.

Hey pls, Too bad about the coin I was hoping you found a good one.

In your postings you seem to imply the illegality of the fake 8R would be something to worry about in your neck of the woods, I only wish it was like that everywhere because I was in CA on vacation this summer and went to a few flea markets to see if I could pick anything up and I was horrified and disgusted with what I saw. Hundreds and hundreds of cheap chinese fake 8R's being sold for about $6 bucks a pop. All I saw were spanish and mexican copies which led me to believe that maybe the law only cares about protecting the American issues from forgery but not any foreign coins.

What was even more sad was seeing all the poor fools buying them by the droves thinking they were real, and even the people that I approached to tell them they were counterfeit looked at me like they didnt believe me. My only thought is those pieces of trash are going to end up on ebay someday once the owners find out what they truly are only to hamper the efforts of people looking for the real thing.

I think this is pretty clear:

18 U.S.C. § 489 : US Code - Section 489: Making or possessing likeness of coins

"Whoever, within the United States, makes or brings therein from
any foreign country, or possesses with intent to sell, give away,
or in any other manner uses the same, except under authority of the
Secretary of the Treasury or other proper officer of the United
States, any token, disk, or device in the likeness or similitude as
to design, color, or the inscription thereon of any of the coins of
the United States or of any foreign country issued as money, either
under the authority of the United States or under the authority of
any foreign government shall be fined under this title."

The law as you stated is clear BUT the 8 Reales is a demonetized issue in the US and in Mexico. The last country in which it had legal tender status was China and that ended in 1933. Therefore the 8R is exempt from the "counterfeit" law you cited.

However, two types of laws do apply to demonetized coins - first, the fraud statutes which apply when a coin (or any other item) is not accurately described with the intent of defrauding a person at the point of sale; and second regulation that does apply is the Hobby Protection Act which applies to copies, replicas and counterfeits of all types (even demonetized issues) made or imported into the US after 1974.

Modern counterfeit coins made after 1974 or imported into the US after that date should be marked "COPY" as required under the Hobby Protection Act. That makes them legal to own, but with the marking they will sell at appropriate amounts.

Old Circulating Contemporary Counterfeits of the type listed in Riddell's book and other historical sources are perfectly legal to possess and sell as long as NO fraud is involved. The Riddell types are exempt from the Hobby Protection act because they were made BEFORE 1974 and because they were known to be in the US in 1845.

Since the 8Rs were demonetized in the US in 1857 and in Mexico ca. 1920 - they are not covered by Counterfeit laws either.

Counterfeits of US coins on the other hand are illegal to own or possess and could be subject to seizure by the US Government. Coins like the Trade dollar that were demonetized are in a grey area in my opinion BUT all Modern Chinese fakes should be marked when encountered.