1878 P Morgan Dollar VAM-85 New Discovery! New B1 Reverse!

The 7 is the one thing I never saw. Heck I was concentrated on everything else like the cracks and die chips and placement of those things and was also looking for doubling if any so I could put those in the description as we all was trying to figure out what this coin was. I am sure there are others out there, I just don't know how many and from the letter Leroy Van Allen sent me I am sure that number is very small because there werent many struck before this one (from the surfaces) and doubt there were many after this one because of the condition the reverse die was already in. All of this makes one think this will be the rarest B1 of the series

I don't know if the 'misplaced 7 in the S' thing is meant as sarcasm or what, but there is not a misplaced '7' anywhere on the coin. The so called '7' is just what it kinda, sorta looked like to whoever dubbed it. I highly doubt that the person doing the dubbing actually thought for even a split second that it really 'was' a '7', as it is quite obvious that it is merely a hubbing fissure in the 'A' in STATES (rather than the 'S'). It is not a '7' from any other denomination, (it isn't really a '7' at all).

If a person wants a pup to search for this variety, might I suggest the pup that actually sets it apart from all other dies, and that is the reverse die crack, (the dreaded 'die is the die' thing). Pick out a letter on the reverse, and memorize the crack that attaches to that letter on both sides. (Pick a letter that's cracks are obviously different than the cracks of v-80). The crack attaching to a letter will be far easier to see than will that tiny fissure within the bottom of one of the legs of the letter 'A'.

edited for spelling.

In a die, the weak areas sink and wear and the brittle areas tend to crack as pressure is repeatedly applied to them in conjuncture with an annealed silver planchet..........The working hub should not be immune to cracks as it contacts annealed steel repetitively.

The devices (with regard to the hub) are not 'in' the hub, but are located 'on' the hub. As a device protruding from the hub's field strikes the die, it is a small area that is absorbing a greater concentration of shock than is the field of the 'hub'.........the entire 'die' face is 'field' prior to striking, and after striking the field looks just as 'frosty' as the devices. Basining sets the contrast.

Anyway, those small protrusions (letters and other devices) on the hub will wear and fissures will emerge (and transfer to the die).......I might think that if a person were search diligently enough, over all of the 1878 reverse B1 and B2 dies, that little '7' might show up in the 'same place' on another die, (but the peripheral cracks in the field will be different). (I would keep this in mind if using the '7' as your main pup).

'If' the little '7' does 'not' show up on another B1 or B2, then the fissure 'might' be die specific, and 'could' be used as a pup.

The point here being, if a crack or fissure is restricted to the device and does not enter into the field, the chances are good that the crack is working hub or master die common (rather than working die specific).

yes there is some VAM-80's in DMPL. The one in my registry set is PL itself. I expect some others to pop up now that everyone will be looking for them and since it was such a big deal in the VAM community. I guess this is how we will see how rare it is. There are allot of 1878 collectors and there are a good many of those people with a complete set of B1's in their collection

Can't argue with that. I just think now that everyone is looking chances are pretty good some will be found. I also think chances are pretty good that you will hear some people have one and actually do not. Just because it was highly publicized. You all know we have seen it many times on here, someone comes in claiming to have this and that and when they are asked for pictures or some kind of proof they just disappear. I really hate to say it but I hope some more do turn up, I know the less that comes to surface the more mine is worth but since I have no plans to ever sell it, it would be nice to see a actual value of what the coin is worth. I mean what fun is it to have the only one of something, unless you are trying to sell?

So how many DMPL coins *can* a fresh die strike? 5? 10? 50? We know the obverse was a "good" one - it outlasted 3 reverses. I'm curious to know if there are any PL VAM-22's.

Honestly, Bryan, if 10 85's were ever struck, I'd be astonished. This coin is likely the 1878 stopper from here on in.

You stay away from the 1921's, now.

I hate 21's so much I always hoped I would find a 1x just so I could send it to you. Speaking of the 1 of coins, the 1X the only way for him to know what it is worth is to sell it and then he wouldn't have it any longer (unless he did what zeewool said). I wonder if he ever got any of those "my cousins neighbor's sisters ex-husband has one of those and offered it to me for 15 bucks"

I'm guessing, and it's just a guess, that a normal Business Strike die can probably do about 15 obvious DMPL strikes before the fields wear to PL. We know Philadelphia used a 3-step basining process, which to me means "really smooth DMPLs for just the first few" because the finer the finish, the sooner it goes away. Try waxing a black car to feel my point.