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Four-Of-A-Kind

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svslav's Avatar
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2010  11:16 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've come across this neat photograph, and would like to share

Four-Of-A-Kind


In my coin choices I wanted to be somewhat consistent, but then I discovered I didn't have Edward VII's crown. So, a halfcrown will do.

In order of appearance on the photograph above:


Four-Of-A-Kind

1. George V, 1935 crown. The effigy was designed by Sir Bertram Mackennal, the reverse by Percy Metcalfe.
2. Edward VII, 1910 halfcrown. The effigy and the reverse were designed by George William de Saulles.
3. Edward VIII, 1937 crown pattern (poststrike). The effigy rendering from a design by Thomas Humphrey Paget, the reverse by George Kruger Gray. Even though there was no official British empire coin with the image of Edward VIII (unlike his name), the effigy was "officially" prepared prior to his abdication. It faced left at the insistence of the king, who considered this placement more flattering and wished to discontinue the tradition of opposite facing for successive monarchs.
4. George VI, 1951 crown, "the Festival of Britain". The effigy was designed by Thomas Humphrey Paget, the classic reverse by Benedetto Pistrucci.
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timsumrall's Avatar
United States
1256 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2010  11:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add timsumrall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting post and cool picture. Never seen them together like that (off to google images for a little ADD :)

ps get the crown :)
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molydeii's Avatar
Turkey
870 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2010  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add molydeii to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And more interestingly, all of them are dressed in Scottish kilts and tartans. This is even interesting too. BTW, Slav, the KE VII Crown you have is quite a beauty. Always wondered why the king's portrait is faced left (it should be on Right traditionally) yeah, he's made some trouble
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svslav's Avatar
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2010  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know! And it looks like I need to upgrade my halfcrown as well.
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svslav's Avatar
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2010  12:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
About the attire. It's their tradition when they take a vacation at Balmoral Castle.
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Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2010  8:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sometimes they holiday at Windsor -

"The Wisden obituary of King George VI in 1953 records that he "performed the hat-trick on the private ground on the slopes below Windsor Castle". A left-handed bowler, the future king bowled his grandfather King Edward VII, his father King George V and his elder brother David, later King Edward VIII, with three consecutive balls. The value of this achievement must be qualified by the fact that Edward VII died when the then Prince Albert of Wales was 15, so the hat-trick was by a young boy in the back garden against three people who never showed any aptitude for the game. Still, it made the pages of Wisden."
http://www.cricinfo.com/wisdenalman.../154150.html

apologies to those who do not love cricket.

I have most of the the KE8 coins: there are a surprizing number of date varieties.

Peter in Oz
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svslav's Avatar
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2010  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have most of the the KE8 coins: there are a surprizing number of date varieties.


Are you talking about the Empire outskirts coins that have his name or fantasy crowns with KE8 on them?
I have quite a few myself (both kinds). I wish I had smaller denominations UK patterns listed in Coincraft. Those cost an arm and a leg!
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2010  02:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a collection of all of the coins issued in the name of Edward V111 throughout the British Empire. There are seven coins in this series. None of them have his image on them.

They are:
British West Africa; copper nickel One Penny, Half Penny and One Tenth of a Penny,
East Africa: bronze Ten Cents and Five Cents,
New Guinea: bronze Penny,
Fiji: copper nickel Penny.

All are in brilliant uncirculated condition, and all have a central hole.

I have also included a silver Kutch 5 Kori, of British India, I am still trying to track down a nice Kutch 2 Kori.

Also included as an afterthought is a aluminum medal struck for his coronation, which never happened.
The legend is os interest - obverse: HM EDWARD V111 crowned head right, reverse: legend in 5 lines BIRTH 23.6.1894, P.OF WALES 13.7.1911, ACCESSION 20.1.1936, CORONATION 12th MAY 1937.

This small collection is not all that valuable, but it is interesting

Edited by sel_69l
11/03/2010 02:22 am
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Pandesalapi's Avatar
Philippines
386 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2010  05:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pandesalapi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting picture and nice coins too.
Thank you for sharing to us
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svslav's Avatar
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2010  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Pandesalapi !


Quote:
I have also included a silver Kutch 5 Kori, of British India, I am still trying to track down a nice Kutch 2 Kori.

Sel, I looked up the Kutch coins, those would be a dream to have! You probably meant 2 and 1/2 Kori?

And KE8 coronation medal? All I can say is
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2011  12:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
svlav: You guessed it!..... I'm still looking for those.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
114 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2011  08:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bilnic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The important thing to remember is that there are no genuine British coins of Edward VIII.

Any items produced by The Royal Mint bearing his effigy (including the trial brass 3d) were, to the best of my knowledge and following extensive searching, never made legal tender by Royal Proclamation and they must therefore be referred to as patterns and not coins.

I have my own word for the "fantasy" items produced since. I also consider these items to be a form of forgery, at least deception. I'm certain that no true numismatist would want them.

King George V died on 20 Jan 1936 and many coins were produced in his name dated 1936; these include the Maundy Money distributed personally by Edward VIII in that year. It is customary never to issue coins in the name of a new Monarch until after the Coronation. Edward VIII abdicated before being crowned, so none of his coins can exist as British issues. Commonwealth/Dominion countries might have different opinions on this and perhaps we can make a listing of legitimate coins of Edward VIII from around the world.

Bill.
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Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2011  09:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well made Fantasy coins are quite often a way of getting an alternate portrait of a sovereign or a portrait of an alternate sovereign. Your assertion that no true numismatist would want them is, in my opinion, invalid. Some of them are startling in how well made they are. Often better than the RM, RCM and RAM in terms of quality and appearance. I don't consider these forgeries since they usually no face value and are normally well catalogued and documented in their own right.

The concept that only the mints have access to Royal portraits for round metal discs is very 1800's. Beauty can be found anywhere made by many different sources. The fact that I have a exceedingly deep collection of true 18th century coin of the realm does not mean I can't also have a collection of tokens and medallions perhaps featuring portraits of the pretender.

God Save the Queen.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
114 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2011  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bilnic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Aha! The difference between the artist and the engineer.

Yes, you can collect the "fantasy" items, but of course they are not coins. Bearing that distinction in mind, OK.

Here is the first example of design against practicality that came to mind. It is the ordinary 1910 florin, no doubt a very pleasing coin when it was new, but has it passed the test of time? I think not. It is one of the better examples from circulation and look at how the reverse has worn - on many of this type the year is unreadable.

A good coin will retain the main parts of the design even when worn and this must be a major consideration. Nice looking designs often wear unevenly which defeats the artist's purpose. A simple design usually achieves this aim rather than a picture transferred to a three-dimension image.

Although I much prefer silver coins, I have to admit that modern ones in cupro-nickel, which is harder, retain their detail far better.

Bill.

Four-Of-A-Kind

Four-Of-A-Kind
Edited by bilnic
06/05/2011 10:28 am
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16868 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2011  10:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...perhaps we can make a listing of legitimate coins of Edward VIII from around the world.

See my post in this old archived thread. As Sel posted back in November, none of them have portraits. At the time, all the mints within the Empire were under the direct control of The Royal Mint, and obverse designs were centrally determined.

Quote:
I have my own word for the "fantasy" items produced since. I also consider these items to be a form of forgery, at least deception. I'm certain that no true numismatist would want them.

I would agree that buying and selling them without using the word "fantasy" is deceptive, and I would also agree that a "coin collector" would probably not want them, since they are not coins. A "numismatist", however, might well wish to own such pieces, if only as examples of this class of numismatic object.

I have bought from coin dealers two such fantasies, one rather well-made silver "coin" in the name of Australia from a series produced in 1954, and one cheap-n-nasty cupronickel type "from" Hong Kong, from the mass-produced 1984 series. I purchased them not for my world coin collection, but for my collection of items that have been featured in articles written for my coin club's monthly magazine; one of the club members back in the mid-1990s wrote a well-researched article classifying and dating all the Edward VIII fantasies known at the time.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Ugly's Avatar
Canada
1733 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2011  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ugly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure what you mean Bill. Are you the artist or the engineer? I certainly have no claims to artistry but I can if you wish discuss metallurgy all day over a dram or two while I tap my iron ring on the bar.

Whether or not anyone else likes or grants validity to my tiny collection of fantasy pieces is of no interest to me. I don't buy a vehicle thinking the neighbours might like it and the last thing I'd be worried about is how to categorize myself. I have coins and paper money and many other items that relate to those.

I'm with Sap though.. strongly... if items aren't labelled fantasy I'm the first one to yell... loudly. Any medallion even remotely resembling a Canadian coin is considered highly illegal, fantasy or not. I'm careful not to cross that line because for the most part it offers some protection against copies being openly sold here in the country or even via ebay listing. There is no law governing the appearance of UK coins in Canada though, and since we share a monarch and all... well a portrait is a portrait and beggars can't be choosers. UK fantasy pieces it is.

Blasphemy Я Us ...
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