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Coins V Stocks? The Ugly Side Of Selling?

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RichEsq1's Avatar
United States
24 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2010  4:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add RichEsq1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
My 8 year old is fascinated with coins, a hobby I am really, really happy with. But I see one fundamental issue:

Does one always get...politely...um.."taken advantage of" when they sell?

I went to a coin show yesterday and people were trying to sell coins, and got offered next to nothing and walked away.

I was in a coin store this Summer, and an elderly woman walked in with a Morgan Silver, and asked the store owner what it was worth: "$15" the guy told her--when silver was trading at 20 bucks an ounce.

Coins are fun, but as a revenue maker? Stocks, on the other hand, you click "sell" and your check is in the mail the next day.

If you're not a dealer, are you basically "stuck" with a coin, unless 100% of the time you sell it at a deep discount to a dealer?
Edited by RichEsq1
11/08/2010 4:38 pm
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mycrob's Avatar
United States
2602 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2010  4:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mycrob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I would recommend if you buy coins that you eventually want to sell, you buy the best coins you can, stay away from junk, cleaned, holed etc. If you need low grades as filler that's fine. If you are going to sell, don't sell to dealers, which have to make a living and thus they will offer you a much lower amount. Sell them to other collectors- ebay, Criagslist, coin forums, and local coin club members would be my suggestions.

If you amass a large enough collection of excess, you could become a dealer yourself- rent a table at coin shows and sell what you can to the public.
Valued Member
Greece
425 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2010  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add epop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is internet and other sites youi can sell your staff nice and easy!
For a worn morgan 15$ with silver at 20 was a nice price
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2010  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just like stocks, you buy low and sell high with coins. The real difference is any idiot with a keyboard can sell a stock and make money while it takes a bit more work, knowledge, and experience to make money selling coins. You have to know how to grade and authenticate in addition to knowing what coins sell and what coins sit. You also need a source for buying coins and capitol money to fund an inventory. Many coins, including common Morgan and Peace dollars, do trade at their silver value especially in the days of $20+/oz silver. A Morgan dollar also contains slightly over 3/4oz silver so $15 would be a fair buy price @$20/oz spot.

These great interwebs have allowed many collectors to become part time dealers, a chance they never would have had in the old world of mail order bids, brick and mortar shops, and convention shows. Obviously, not everyone can sell coins and have it be their full income but others thrive at doing just that. I have started selling in the past couple years and have over $5000 in sales with a fairly small initial investment, the profits are generally used to fund more inventory but they also help fund my personal collection as well. For me, the hardest part of selling coins has been the ability to accurately image a coin for presentation in a sale. Terrible pictures will lose you money every time regardless of how good a salesman you are but good pictures go a long way in selling coins online.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16834 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2010  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There's an old adage: the easiest way to make a small fortune in coin collecting is to start out with a large one.

The amount of money you get for a coin is directly proportional to the amount of time and effort you're prepared to dedicate to it. Taking it to a dealer is quick money, but usually not very much of it. Sending it to an auction house is usually better money, but you have to wait for the next auction, whcih might be a couple of months away. Selling it online (coin forum or ebay) is usually even better money, but you have to do all the selling, shipping, and dealing with the buyer yourself.

Notice how many times I used the word, "usually". In the end, a coin is worth whatever the people that see it for sale are prepared to pay for it.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2010  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Presentation is everything. People like to know what they're getting.
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Wei Fun's Avatar
United States
244 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2010  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wei Fun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you're buying higher-value stuff, you can get them certified. Yeah, I know, folks on this board tend to be anti-slab, but what it lets you do is to sell them on sites like ebay without people looking at you weird because you don't have 85000 feedback. Even after fees, ebay seems to produce a better return (for certified coins) than trying to unload them on a dealer. Uncertified might be dicier if you don't already have huge feedback. A lot of people, I think, look suspiciously on low-feedback sellers showing up with big dollar items of questionable provenance. Especially when your ebay handle sounds Chinese.

But that sort of skirts the real issue. There's are many reasons financial planners suggest putting only a very small fractions of one's assets into alternatives - illiquidity and the resulting friction are a legitimate issue. It's an issue that can be managed, but not one that can be ignored.
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snowman's Avatar
United States
1840 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2010  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add snowman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think a lot of people get frustrated when they can't sell their coins for retail prices at their local dealer. Often they claim that they are being taken advantage of. What they fail to realize is that a coin store that buys it's stock at retail prices stands no chance of staying in business. Buyers need to remember that there is overhead in running any business such as rent, electricity, heating, accounting, inventory management, security etc. Dealers offer less than retail because they need to pay the bills and still make a profit. Besides, most buyers aren't willing to pay retail prices to begin with. In my opinion, a coin dealer that offers 60% of the retail value on items worth less than $100 is reasonable.
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RichEsq1's Avatar
United States
24 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2010  9:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RichEsq1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So...in a way, I'm right.

My son does have stocks, and some gov't bonds that he received mostly as gifts. But he doesn't know about these.

So you post an ad on ebay for morgan silvers, and get stuck in the mud with the other 3000 posts.

As a rule of thumb, because of his age, and because it may be a passing fancy at this point, I have been steering him to "silver". That is, assume a coin (silver, that is) has two different sets of value: 1) Is the value of silver, which no one can ever, ever take away. It is a commodity, period.

But the silver piece also has the numismatic value to it. So, if it's a piece of silver, that is a bare "minimum" value. The value as a coin is above and beyond. And it is this second part we may eventually get stuck on.
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RealPeso's Avatar
United States
426 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2010  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RealPeso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The first time I tried to sell some excess coins to some dealers, I got lowballed so bad that I kind of stayed away from buying any more coins but now I've realized that its all about the research and knowledge that you have that gives you the edge when it comes time to sell. A few of the mistakes I made were:

Not knowing the exact silver content (ASW) of my coins.
Implying that all I wanted to do was get rid of my coins.
Not haggling too much for fear of "offending" the dealer.
Rushing instead of taking my time.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2010  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So far I've never sold a coin and probably never will. Therefore it makes no difference if they are going up or down in value.
Coin collecting is basically a hobby and should in most instances be
considered exactly that.
Stocks on the other hand are exact and what you see is what you get. I mean if you see your AT&T stocks are at $29.62 per share and you sell them, that is what you get. Simple and easy. Of course there is that brokerage fee though. Now with coins you first must find a place to sell them. Then worry about things if using the internet such as lost in mail, insurances, postages and haggling about prices.
Coins are like cars in a way. Someone can tell you your car is worth $30,000 but if the only offer you get when selling is $10,000, then that is really what it is worth. Coins too are like that. You can look up all the so called Coin Price Guides and find a certain coin is valued at $100 but if and when you try to sell it you only get $50 offers, that is what it really is worth.
Back to stocks. Again, you see a stock is selling for $xxx and that is exactly what you pay or get selling. No haggling, just that price. And again, the broker fees.
I never sell coins but I have sold and bought many stocks. You can look at your coins and appreciate them for what they are. Anyone that gets that same enjoyment from a stock certificate needs help.
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scott hill's Avatar
United States
66 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2010  12:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scott hill to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Personaly I think that if you are collecting/investing that the most reasonable thing for a person to do is to buy as high of a grade of the lowest mintages that your budget allows in U.S.proof and MS coins in silver in my opine these are real winners silver at 28.00 and I think it's long overdue and a long way to go
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188770 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2010  11:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coins are for collecting, not investing. Just my proverbial Two Cents.
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trdhrdr007's Avatar
United States
2335 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2010  12:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unless you buy from or sell to an individual you will pay something for the priviledge of exchanging your item for cash(or vice versa). It's easiest to explain with precious metals.....even the largest dealers sell at some percentage above spot, & buy at some percentage below spot. If you are a volume buyer you may pay 2% over spot & be able to sell at 2% below spot. That translates into needing a 4% price rise to break even.....in other words, you are starting out in the hole. The less liquid your item is the more of a hole you start from.
Edited by trdhrdr007
11/09/2010 12:28 pm
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2010  1:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Coins are fun, but as a revenue maker? Stocks, on the other hand, you click "sell" and your check is in the mail the next day.

That is just it. To a large extent coins are a HOBBY, and not an investment. And the approach to coins as a hobby is much different than how you would approach them as an investment. You make the comparison to stocks, stocks are much more liquid than coins are. Whenever you decide to sell your stock there is a buyer with a posted bid ready to pay that for it. Coins are not like that. Yes there are bid and ask prices, but those are supposed to be dealer to dealer wholesale prices. The retail prices you pay will likely be higher than Ask, the the prices you will be paid will be less than Bid. You also have the fact that one share of common stock in a company is just like any other share and they are both worth the same price. This is not true with coins. Every coin is different and prices for two coins of the same date/mint and condition can vary widely. And prices offered for coins are also dependent on the popularity of the series. A rare date nickel Three Cent piece may have a posted Bid/Ask range, but you are likely to be offered much less because the dealer may have to hold it for a LONG time because th number of people who collect those rare coins are also rare. But a rare coin in a popular series will get an offer much closer to Bid price because the dealer knows that he ill not have it for long. He will be able to sell it quickly, make his profit, and then roll that money over as well.

Usually coins are a hobby, but for some reason unlike most any other hobby, people seem to expect they should make a profit on it, or at least get all their money back. A hobby, almost by definition, is something pursue using discretionary money. If you get ANY of your money back from a hobby you should consider yourself lucky. In this respect coin are miles ahead of most any other hobby. But if you are concerned with getting a good rate of return on your money you would be better off in other more traditional investments, but they aren't as much fun.
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