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2010 Proof Silver Eagle PF 70 How?

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Valued Member

United States
66 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2010  03:01 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add justndav1976 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
http://cgi.ebay.com/2010-W-SILVER-E...em2eb14349e9

How is it possible for this seller to know his coins are going to grade PF70 when they aren't even released? Just another thing that makes me wonder if the mint is going to screw the average collector and give preference to the big inventory folks and big subscribers. What say all of you?

I did see my subscription for two was re instated but not scheduled to ship until the 29th.
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Maineman750's Avatar
United States
3592 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2010  04:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One reason I don't think much of the modern coins that grade 70 is that they seem to be readily available...I wonder when they will be selling double dies before they are minted ?
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2010  11:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
He's just playing the odds. He knows that a significant percentage of proof eagles will come back as PF-70. He knows that if he send in X number of proofs he should get back Y number of 70's.
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carmykle's Avatar
United States
2448 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2010  12:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add carmykle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Amazing! How did he get a 2006 to look like a 2010. Oh that's right, he said he didn't have a pic yet.

And this is legal how? Have the 2010 even been released yet?
Edited by carmykle
11/15/2010 12:40 pm
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clairhardesty's Avatar
United States
1027 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2010  12:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add clairhardesty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since 2002 the percentage of PR70 SAEs at PCGS has been fairly constant at around 1 in 8 coins sent in for grading come back perfect. NGC probably has a slightly higher percentage, most people feel that NGC give out 70s easier than PCGS. If he ordered enough coins, he can be sure that some will be 70s. Interestingly, before 2002, the percentage of PR70 SAEs at PCGS was much lower and much less consistent. Basically, one year after West Point took over minting the Proof SAEs, quality and consistency went up and have stayed up.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2010  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
he probably ordered 100 of them or even more with different addresses and then he sends them to NGC in bulk and chances are he will get over half of them PF-70 so then he knows he will be sending a PF-70 to the winner

Quote:
And this is legal how? Have the 2010 even been released yet?

that is why its a pre-sale. Nothing illegal about having a pre-release sale, just if something happens and you don't get what the person paid for within the 30 day limit ebay gives you then you return their money. People do it all the time on ebay
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bryan1234's Avatar
United States
463 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2010  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bryan1234 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
personally I dont get grading bullion, even though its a proof coin
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2010  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
personally I dont get grading bullion, even though its a proof coin

its all about the registry game. The registry is the best marketing move the TPG's has ever created. I am surprised ANACS hasn't followed suit
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okiepb's Avatar
United States
1213 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2010  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiepb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, but at some point it seems that people will get smart & realize that these aren't truly rarities and aren't worth the exorbitant prices.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2010  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
True, but until they do people will keep feeding the frenzy and laugh all the way to the bank.
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cajun's Avatar
United States
53 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2010  07:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cajun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have heard that the quality of the 2010 proof ASE's are not up to past standards and alot of people have been sending them back to the mint. If this is true, a PF-70 may bring very high premiums for the 2010 version. Time will tell.
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fenton's Avatar
United States
4989 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2010  09:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suspect that to preserve the TOUGH MS-70 rating, a coin needs to be put in high quality air tight slabs almost immediately after it is minted. I doubt mint packaging is adequate to preserve that rating over time.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2010  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
fenton, if you think TPG slabs are air tight, you would be mistaken. Coins can and do change in TPG slabs, especially copper.
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clairhardesty's Avatar
United States
1027 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2010  12:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add clairhardesty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And all TPG slabs are not equal. PCGS and NGC are probably the best. They are as sealed as possible with the material used. Both are welded but I do not know if they use any kind of inert gas or simply seal in room air. ICG slabs are good too. ANACS has always had issues with sealing their slabs. Some are glued and not very well at that. I have no knowledge of third tier third party graders. The mint capsules, while not truly sealed, are actually a very good long term storage environment, provided the capsule is not exposed to environmental extremes.
Edited by clairhardesty
11/30/2010 12:30 pm
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Gothic Florin's Avatar
United States
2541 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2010  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gothic Florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
People won't get smart - they will just keep getting dumber and buy this kind of junk. I'll pay spot + a small premium for an Eagle, and maybe I'll cough up the $45 or so for a proof, but not some inflated some for a slab and a sticker. Far too much supply for it to ever really be worth a huge amount in my book...
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clairhardesty's Avatar
United States
1027 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2010  2:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add clairhardesty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't see paying any premium for a coin simply becuase it is slabbed. That said, often MS/PR-69 coins in slabs can be picked up for the same price as raw, ungraded coins and in that case it comes down to a matter whim at the moment. Commercial bulk submitters can get coins graded and slabbed even at PCGS & NGC for only a few dollars per coin and normal price fluctuations can easily hide that cost. Since a raw coin could be a 68 or even less, such a case is one where a slabbed coin has value. I might well break it out of its cage once it is in my hands but that is just me, I am not likely to resell many of my coins. In terms of having my coins graded, it just is not something I am interested in doing. I am not into comparing my sets against others and I don't plan on selling my coins. I'll let my kids get them graded after I'm gone. Grading bullion only makes sense if it is going to get a 70 and only then if you are building a set or selling to those who do. Proof coins however, no matter what they are made of, are not bullion in my opinion. They are numismatic items, made as much for their beauty as art as for their value as metal. The same applies for those coins that the mint has so poorly chosen to call uncirculated (what was so bad about calling them satin specimens that you had to use a word that had a long established meaning in numismatics).
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