Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Specializing in Modern Numismatics Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Any ID On This Crude, Old Coin? | Armenia Kardez C.1300 Ad

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 5 / Views: 4,023Next Topic  
Valued Member
14ers's Avatar
United States
230 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2010  07:55 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 14ers to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've had this little thing for some time and have never been able to ID it. Anybody know what it is? It is about the size of a US cent and bronze. If it's weight is a help, I could weigh it.

Any-ID-On-This-Crude,-Old-Coin?-|-Armenia-Kardez-C.1300-Ad

Any-ID-On-This-Crude,-Old-Coin?-|-Armenia-Kardez-C.1300-Ad

Any-ID-On-This-Crude,-Old-Coin?-|-Armenia-Kardez-C.1300-Ad

Identified - moved to World Coins forum - Sap
Pillar of the Community
United States
645 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2010  02:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DCH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm guessing an Armenian Kardez, somewhere between Hetoum I and Levon III.


Pillar of the Community
Pertinax's Avatar
United Kingdom
2133 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2010  3:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pertinax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I disagree with DCH.

I'm pretty sure this is a copper styca of the kingdom of Northumbria, which was partly in England and partly in Scotland. The styca was the commonest coin in the British Anglo-Saxon series of coins. I've never seen one in such worn condition. However, most stycas are readable and have the name of the king or archbishop on one side and the moneyer on the other. This isn't readable, and I think it was probably issued after 867 AD when the Vikings' puppet king, Egbert, was installed in York. The Vikings issued their own copies of the styca coinage, and these are often rough and with blundered inscriptions.

Value about $5-10 in the US. I doubt that anyone would buy this in the UK.

There are some better specimens at
http://finds.org.uk/earlymedievalco...type/id/1638 and lots on ebay - search for 'Northumbria styca'
Pillar of the Community
United States
645 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2010  10:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DCH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pertinax, I don't see the similarities with Northumbria coinage.

I still believe this is an Armenian coin from one of the Hetoums(probably II).

http://mehmeteti.150m.com/armenians/hs036.htm is a decent example of the obverse legend used on I and II issues. Legend looks like a decent match to me.
Any-ID-On-This-Crude,-Old-Coin?-|-Armenia-Kardez-C.1300-Ad
Any-ID-On-This-Crude,-Old-Coin?-|-Armenia-Kardez-C.1300-Ad
http://mehmeteti.150m.com/armenians/hs047.htm is very close in design to the OP's coin.
Any-ID-On-This-Crude,-Old-Coin?-|-Armenia-Kardez-C.1300-Ad
My problem is the reverse. The OP's coin is even more crude than the linked coins. Not impossibly different, but a stretch.
Pillar of the Community
Pertinax's Avatar
United Kingdom
2133 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2010  9:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pertinax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DCH
My apologies, I think you are right. Now that I enlarge the obverse I can see clearly that it's not Northumbrian, though the reverse still looks to me like a Viking imitation of a Northumbrian styca.

The obverse does look like a king seated with sceptre, but the fabric doesn't look like the linked pictures.

Are there similar coins to the Armenians of Cilicia in an adjacent territory ?

It would be useful to know the weight, and the specific gravity.

Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16810 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2010  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Are there similar coins to the Armenians of Cilicia in an adjacent territory ?

The Cilician-Armenian kingdom was a Crusader protectorate, surrounded by (and often under siege by) the Turkish, Egyptian and Mongol sultanates that eventually conquered what we now call Turkey. The Crusaders struck coins in the European mediaeval style, while the sultanates struck coins of Islamic style; the Armenians had no other neighbours. Armenian coinage is in a sense unique, often combining aspects of the two styles. For example, the king is shown on these later copper coins to be seated cross-legged in the style of a sultan, rather than on a high throne like his European and Crusader contemporaries, but the cross on the reverse clearly marks it as being from a Christian state. The Armenian script used on these coins is entirely their own and is (when legible) quite distinctive.

As for the identity of this coin, I'd agree that Hetoum II is the most likely candidate. See this zeno.ru page.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
  Previous TopicReplies: 5 / Views: 4,023Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.23 seconds to rattle this change. Forums