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 Replies: 23 / Views: 2,929 |
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Valued Member
United States
188 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
15437 Posts |
Wow .... that looks impressive. Waiting for the experts.  David |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4000 Posts |
The motto definitely. But, I thought the VDB looked good.
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Valued Member
 United States
188 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
71 Posts |
is this the one that was just listed on ebay? or is this another one with the same doubling. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2661 Posts |
Looking at V. D. B. I find it near impossible to call it Machine Doubling. That is a true DD in my opinion. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
Well, unfortunately your opinion is incorrect. It is Machine Doubling. What you are not considering is that those letters are incuse, and you have to think the whole thing through in a different way than with letters that are in relief. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4000 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2448 Posts |
Is that based on the fact that none of the devises are split? I'm still learning.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
Please forgive my questions as I am still very much confused as to Machine Doubling and die doubling. Everytime I think I have it down, I visit an error website and will come across a verified Doubled Die that looks for all the world like Machine Doubling to my untrained eye. So to this case in point. My understanding is that Machine Doubling is caused by loose dies that twist slightly after coming into contact with the planchet. Right? Which means that the shelf like image is the original point of contact and the image in relief is the material caught under the die as it moved in the striking process? I get that the "VDB" is in relief on the die. So it should then strike into the planchet causing the incise image; normally? Correct? So with Machine Doubling once the "VDB" was punched into the planchet for it to be Machine Doubling the die would have to slightly rotate during the striking process; thus either making a wider "VDB" or pushing material UP onto the planchet surface as the die rotates and recedes. Is that correct? Again forgive me I am trying to approach this from the view of a Machinist. My greatest confusion arises because in the picture of the "VDB" it APPEARS, to my admittedly untrained eye, that we have two incised sets of letters. Particularly the "V". I would like to have a better picture of the area of the left side of the "V" it looks like you can see the planchet striations in between the left arms of the "V". One striation APPEARS to come from before the "V"; appear in between the left arms of the "V"s and continue on past the that feature. Leading one to believe that the area in between the two "V"s is same level as the surrounding areas of that design feature. I don't see how you could have two incised images, that result from a shearing/twisting of the die unless it struck twice? Please understand I am NOT questioning the diagnosis. I am just having a very hard time wrapping my head around this process. I have worked with dies as a machinist while going to College to get my Engineering Degree; so I am somewhat familiar with the overall process. Admittedly on nothing as small as a coin. Help! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2189 Posts |
What you are not considering is that those letters are incuse, and you have to think the whole thing through in a different way than with letters that are in relief.
What do you mean incuse? Both sets of the VDB look raised,Seperation or notching is present.The rest of the letters show me flat shelf like appearance with no apparent notching
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
jasper62,
what you are seeing is an optical illusion, the VDB initials are incuse on the coin but do appear to be in relief in the photo.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2189 Posts |
I hate optical illusions.One of the greatest examples I've seen of Machine Doubling |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts |
the VDB are imprinted ( in dented ) in the cent. Def Machine Doubling as other have said and I'm not expert But the pics do make it looked raised. i dont think doublie die could happen on the vdb in the new 2010 cents could it ? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
A doubled die is a doubled die. If this were a doubled die the initials would have the same separation as the rest of the coin. You cannot determine whether you have a doubled die by the initials alone in the case of incuse lettering. I don't know how to explain it better that it has already been explained, but this is Machine Doubling. When the die bounces on the coin, it impresses the incuse lettering a second time...just like a leather punch. When letters in relief are hit a second time, the field next to the letters flattens part of the letters causing the shelf-like doubling. With incuse letters the field is higher than the rest of the letter, so there is no part to the letter to flatten. Something else that some of you may not want to believe is that Machine Doubling that doubles the lettering on the shoulder is actually exceedingly common. It's just usually not noticed. |
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Replies: 23 / Views: 2,929 |
Posted 12/11/2010 10:43 pm
