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Camera Switch

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murty's Avatar
United States
1353 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2010  12:30 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add murty to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am currently using a Nikon D40 for my pictures. The pictures just seem to be ok. I have a chance to sell it for a fair price. Looking to see what would be an easier camera to use for excellent coin pics.
Thanks
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Canada
1248 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2010  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hhbkiddo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
this is one for SSSSSSSSSSSSSuper Dave....
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2010  1:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're kind of caught between a rock and a hard place here, murty. Your D40, with the kit lens, will never be more than "just OK." It needs a dedicated macro lens to bring out its' true capabilities.

As will any other dSLR you might sell the D40 to buy.

You can do fairly well with a lesser camera (a point-and-shoot), but it will require a whole bunch of compromises with lens-coin distance and lighting, and in the end might not be better than you're doing right now. For that result, you're going to have to invest a bunch of time and learning which wouldn't be necessary with a dSLR and a good lens. The point is, "easier" is easiest with a good camera and a good lens.

I have to ask, though, how you're utilizing the D40. No offense intended, but are you setting up and using it correctly under the general rules of coin shooting that we discuss here? I don't wish to insult anyone's intelligence, but I have to ask, to make sure you're already getting the best from your camera with results that still don't satisfy you.

Assuming you've gotten the best your camera can give, you either sell it for another dSLR solution of dubious improvement until you get a dedicated lens. Or, you sell it for a point-and-shoot solution which *might* better your results, but at a cost. Or, you find and purchase a good Macro lens for the D40.

If the latter, B&H Photo has what I consider an excellent lens at a dynamite price:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...AF_90mm.html
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murty's Avatar
United States
1353 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2010  1:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add murty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SuperDave,
Thanks for the very informative response. I have been trying to follow recommendations. My results have been inconsistant...probably my fault. Sometimes I get the lighting correct,sometimes not.My next task will try to use a remote to take the pictures to avoid any shaking on my part.
Attached are a couple of my latest attempts.
Camera-Switch
Camera-Switch
Camera-Switch
Thanks Again
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2010  3:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're not going to do a whole lot better than the first two, with your stock lens. If I can assume that there are close to full-size, not having had much else cropped out of the shot, you might be a little bit too close to get the best-possible focus. The size of your pics is about as good as I can do with my Canon and the stock lens, and my 450D has twice the megapixel count of your D40.

In other words, if we're both using a 55mm lens set the same distance from the coin, my pics should be roughly twice the size of yours all things being equal. Different lenses can focus at closer distances - yours might be better than mine that way - so what I'm saying doesn't carry the weight of law.

The top of the first coin looks a little less-focused than the bottom - that's due to the camera and the coin not being perfectly parallel. I don't emphasize that enough when I talk about how to shoot coins. You have to be very, very picky about keeping the plane of the lens and the coin absolutely parallel, and the coin centered in the camera's viewfinder, especially with non-macro lenses. I don't have any easy way to do that - I use a 24" metal rule, edge-across the lens with the camera pointed straight down, and I hold the rule in one hand while measuring the distance from the bottom of the rule to the table as far as I can from the lens, at the same distance from the lens.

If that distance to the table is off 1/8", 12" from the center of the lens, I correct it, and I do that measurement in two directions.

I guess you're not tethering the camera to the computer? It should have a manual timer you can set to like two seconds, thereby keeping your hands off the camera when the shutter snaps. The slower the exposure, the greater chance that finger-induced shake will affect the shot. That kind of shake, for example, could change a perfectly-focused coin to a shot with the same blur as the top of your first coin, at an exposure of 1/200, much less 1/80. The only advantage tethering gives you over a self-timer is the ability to change settings on the fly, and to see what you just did full-size on the screen in front of you.

Are you using all-manual settings on the camera?

Lighting will change; sometimes between the obverse and reverse of the same coin. Definitely between a worn and a Mint State example of the same coin. I have to change exposure settings between the obverse and reverse of a Morgan - if 1/160 works on the obverse, it'll take 1/200 or even 1/250 to get the same result from the reverse.

It's my belief that we can still tweak the results you're getting from the camera you've got. No, the pics won't be as good as a dedicated macro lens, but I honestly think we can get it as good as any other solution short of one.
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murty's Avatar
United States
1353 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2010  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add murty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have a macro lens,some close up lens..1x through 10x. Not sure if it would help.Sometimes I use auto setting,sometimes the "p" setting.
Do you have a tethering program to recommend/ Or does it really make much of a difference.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2010  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Never thought to ask - can I assume you're using the stock Nikon 18-55 lens? My comments here will be based on that assumption.

I *think* you're giving up some quality possibilities by not using full manual settings. I say it that way, because your pics already look pretty good from the standpoint of what manual settings can help with - they seem just slightly overexposed. My gut feeling is, try "A" instead of "P" ("P" and AUTO are essentially the same setting, with stuff available in "P" that really doesn't relate to what we're doing).

"A" is Aperture Priority mode. With this, you will set the Aperture using the Control Ring (the horizontal dial at the top right of the back of your camera), and the camera will figure out the rest of what to do based on what you tell it.

So, try this for me. Use one of the Morgans you've already posted, and the light you're already using. Go to "A," and set the aperture to 8.0. Use the lens zoomed all the way in (55mm), and set it up so that the lens is about 16" from the coin. Your lens will focus down to 11" from the subject. Try to autofocus it by hand (pressing the shutter halfway); it may not because the camera will think it's closer than 11" due to the zoom. If it won't autofocus, move the camera further from the coin by steps until it will autofocus.

Then snap a shot using the 2-second delay, and see what you think compared to stuff you've already done. If I'm guessing right, you already have enough light the way you're doing it now; if the image is too dark, I'm wrong and you need to bring more light to bear.
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palaniappan's Avatar
India
265 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2010  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add palaniappan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hello Mr.Murthy, why dont you switch over to a flat bed scanner for scanning the images of coins. By that way there is no need for lighting and shaking of the camera.

warm wishes.
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murty's Avatar
United States
1353 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2010  7:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add murty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SuperDave,
First coin as originally done
Second coin using your recommendations.
Camera-Switch
Camera-Switch

Your recommendation has made a nice difference.
Thanks
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murty's Avatar
United States
1353 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2010  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add murty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
palaniappan
Scanner does not really get very good image.
But thank you.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2010  8:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, quick thoughts:

I'm of the impression that you're setting the coin vertical. The way the light is hitting the rim makes me believe so. The camera appears to be a little higher than the coin, as well.

It is far more difficult to get a good shot this way than with the coin laying flat on a surface, and the camera pointing straight down. Judging from the light angle, you're losing most of the available light to shine on the coin - the rim should not be that brightly-lit - and as a result the exposure is much slower than it might be. Under perfect conditions, a slow exposure is not a hindrance, but under less-perfect conditions, the faster the better.

Your camera is better at correcting color than mine.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2010  11:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hhbkiddo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dave... I have that Tamaron lens.....HOWEVER, I paid 120 more.....It is a super lens.....aqnd a 3 hundred an absolute bargain....
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