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Breaking News To Someone About A Coin They Own

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upstate's Avatar
United States
3283 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  10:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add upstate to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Snap a picture if you can and maybe someone here can help with fair market value.
I personally think you do your friends a grave disservice if you don't let them know the facts.
The longer nothing gets done the less chance you get refunded, it may already be too late
without the better business bureau or a lawyer; both of which I would entertain in a heartbeat.
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  10:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I get what you're saying about the dealer, and I agree with you to an extent. But the dealer does need to make a profit. If he's not doing well because of his location, etc. he could need to shave some off his buying prices to survive. Just try to look at it in a half-full way and try to be forgiving of his attitude. Maybe he's under a heck of a lot of stress because his business isn't doing well.

Until I walk a mile in your shoes I cannot complain about how you lead your life. Just remember that.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  11:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
maybe its a variation of a minor DD not in the books yet

The chances of that happening are almost zero- the 1955P Lincoln has been heavily studied over the years because of 1955P-1DO-001. The $400 price is also very suspicious, an EF40 should sell for 3x that much. Contrary to popular opinion, B&M dealers are almost never experts in errors or die varieties- they tend to be generalists. I have seen some dealers make blatantly obvious errors in ID, either through lack of expertise or willful ignorance. That could very well be the case here and not overt fraud.

However, I think you have to accept the fact that these people have been ripped off either way, the question is what are you going to do about it?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is the worst situation a person can be thrust into - knowing a wrong has been done, and knowing you're the one who has to act. No choice for this will be easy, but the worst choice is not to act.

We do this regularly here, coppertop5150. I've had to tell people they've just blown a few thousand dollars on worthless junk, and I'll have to do it again. It gets no easier every time, but also it never gets less necessary.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The chances of that happening are almost zero- the 1955P Lincoln has been heavily studied over the years because of 1955P-1DO-001

Well that may be true, but we all know it can happen. If you remember a new B1 Reverse was found in a date that is highly scrutinized and collected by some highly regarded experts and None had been found in 45 years before that. Once this one was found, another one was added because people started paying closer attention to what they had in their collections. So it may be close to Zero, but definitely isn't unheard of.

Quote:
We do this regularly here

That has to be the hardest part of the "job". telling someone they don't have what they thought they had, or the person who was left something from their dead relative that for years touted how rare and valuable the coin was and how if they ever needed the money they could sell and be living on easy street for the rest of their lives. These situations never end well because these people have been told all their lives its one thing by someone they trust and love and here is this stranger on a computer telling you another. Then you throw in the new collectors that have just made a major purchase they are so happy about only to come here to find out they have purchased a fake coin. Not only have you just dropped a bomb and pretty much broken the spirit of that person, you have also left a bad taste in his mouth about collecting coins in general. So yes this is the hardest part of the knowledge you share on a coin forum or with friends and family. But it is still a part of the job that has to be taken care of no matter how hard it is to do
Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  1:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppertop5150 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
well I just walked down to her house and asked if I could see the 55 agian.

She told me its wrapped up for christmas and under the tree.
I told her I dont think the coin is what she thinks it is and maybe the dealer made a mistake.

She said well its wrapped up now.

I told her id rewrap it for her, I just needed to see the coins details one more time.
She was hesitant but did
Its says
1955-d ddo1-101 xf40+ red/brown
does not have any company for a grading and looks like someone just typed it up on a sticker and stuck it to the case.

I can barley see and doubling at all.

Dont know what to make of it

any suggestions
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1955D DDO-001

There's a Denver mintmark there. What you should see on that die is a doubled eye and a doubled 19 of the date. In EF grade that coin is a $10 item at best. In AU it shouldn't sell for more than $20.

Take a look on my site at the die and compare the coin...

http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=lds
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Maineman750's Avatar
United States
3592 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, your original post said 55-D...that would have been enough to tell her right then...too bad for her.
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lincolncentguy's Avatar
United States
809 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lincolncentguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think you should tell your friends right away...thats very sad that there are dealers like that out there.
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It could very well be that the dealer has no clue how to price doubled dies. It could well be that the dealer saw "doubled die" on a "1955" coin, knew it wasn't the biggie wirth $1500, so it had to be a more minor version - $400 sounds good, right?

Like has been stated here before (and by me in other places ad nauseum), MOST dealers have NO CLUE that there are more than just a couple of different doubled dies, and most dealers couldn't pick the difference between a true error and a basement job to save their lives. They see die varieties and errors as a cult-followed very small niche of the numismatic community that they don't need (or want) any involvement in. So when they get in a coin that's a doubled die and it's not one of the CDN listed coins, they have no clue what to price it at.

This guy is likely clueless as to what he has done, and people here are automatically on a witch hunt assuming he did all of this out of spite. Come on people!!
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fenton's Avatar
United States
4989 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  2:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My local dealer here is not a numismatist by any stretch of the imagination. He's just been in the business a long time and knows by "gut feel" what a coin will grade. These guys see so few 1955 DD's nowadays I could see them get legitimately confused by a Machine Doubling example. It wouldn't surprise me if the dealer made an inadvertent purchase mistake and is now passing through that pain unknowingly at the point of sale. To be honest I didn't even really know about Machine Doubling until I started reading this forum.
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  3:22 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a dealer I visit when I am in Arizona. He bought the shop from another dealer that wanted out of the biz. To make a long story short, he has an error section in his case with a couple 1972 DDO. They are obviously not the big one, but he has priced them as such. He has another LMC that is obviously plated with silver that he is selling as an off metal error. There are dealers out there that are not Numismatists. They just sell coins and nick nacks.
I would absolutely bring this to your friends attention ;-)
swcoin.ecrater.com
Edited by vermontensium
12/14/2010 3:26 pm
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palaniappan's Avatar
India
265 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add palaniappan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
please tell the truth about the fake coin

warm wishes.
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carmykle's Avatar
United States
2448 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  6:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add carmykle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mobilize the reserves, lets all go! I hate when they do that to an innocent; especially to the wife of a collector. You know, it's really hard to tell your family how to buy coins if they have no interest in the hobby. Even if he went in, saw the coin, told where the coin was, and exactly what to ask and look for; the innocent is at the mercy of the dealer. Once again, Caveat Emptor.
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Deltron's Avatar
United States
508 Posts
 Posted 12/14/2010  7:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Deltron to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The right thing to do, is to do what you can to make the situation right. If she is willing to drop hundreds on this coin, I highly suggest you point her in the right direction. That dealer sounds like he needs to be boycotted, aware or unaware of his mistake, he just sounds like a grinch of a man.
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