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 Replies: 23 / Views: 7,216 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1126 Posts |
While spending some time with some Lincoln Memorial cent's on a beautiful Christmas Eve morning. I began to wonder why there is not a Full Steps designation available for them with the Third Party Grading Services. Like for the Jefferson nickel. My thoughts are in going through them they are quite difficult to find and when you do find them just the designation alone would denote a well struck coin which is a major component in grading. Just a curious thought for discussion. Any thoughts or opinions are appreciated on this topic. Terry |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19935 Posts |
I've been saying this for a LONG time. It's one of the finest design elements the Mint ever used and it is completely neglected. Yet the poorly defined steps on a nickel are important? It's makes no sense.
As most of you already know, this is one of my main critera for cents in my collection. I go crazy looking for issues with full steps. However,for some years, it is indeed impossible since the masters lacked detail.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1126 Posts |
BadThad, I was looking at a 1974 Philly LMC on the obverse just to re-examine it along with some others because there is some thing going on on Lincoln's cheek Kind of like a die crack but Not. Anyways I flipped the coin over and when the light hit the steps all I could think was WOW. it was almost like they jumped right off the coin. Your main criteria being full steps I am sure you know what I mean. I think that one coin has made a convert out of me. There are many things that the Grading Services do that make me want to question them. One in particular is there is a coin with a variety that has 11 different pick up points on it making it almost a completely different reverse. Yet the top Third Party Grading Service in the country does not recognize it. Another thing that makes me wonder is they opened a photo grading portion to their web site that has U.S. Coins yet they do not have this series AT ALL in their photo grade section yet it is the most popular registry set by the number of sets in their coin registry collectors area  Just makes me think something funny is going on. Possibly internal politics or something else. Who Knows. Below is a shot of the coin that makes me want to start looking for Full Steps Lincoln Memorial Cents. Terry   Edited by stewart
12/24/2010 11:10 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Interesting. I never even thought of looking at those steps. I always just assumed they were there. Now I have to go to the bank, get many sets out of the safe deposit box to see if all the steps show on my coins. Your making me work a lot with this one.   |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2448 Posts |
Sorry guys, I think it would be a nightmare. We'd be arguing as to where the stairs actually start, if the areas below the pillars could be divided into sections (11.5 to 13 as I'm counting) to determine stair count. The Jefferson nickle only has 4 primary step grading areas; easy to determine. Will the devises on the stairs obscure the stair or prove the stair extends beyond the device. How about the areas that extend beyond the corners of the memorial? Are those steps or foundation? Man I can hear the Philadelphia Lawyers now.... But hey, who am I to say? Merry Christmas. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19935 Posts |
stewart - The mint produced a new reverse master hub in 1973. Finding FS examples of 1973/1974 cents is fairly easy. However, most coins were produced from mid- to late- die state dies. They also had a habit of over-polishing the dies which produced a ton of mushy coins with a lot of polish lines in the fields. Also, for the 1974 there was a lesser number of small date coins produced...another aspect ignored by TPG's and collectors in general. IMHO, the TPG's are HORRIBLE at grading LMC's. The registry sets mean nothing to me. It's common practice for them to over-grade Memorial cents and grade primarily on luster while ignoring imperfections such as the steps or a malformed cornice. I'd be willing to bet my LMC collection is far finer than the top Memorial registry set because I care about all these things.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3077 Posts |
so may I ask what are the hardest years to achive full step and aint there 2 types of steps?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19935 Posts |
Quote:Sorry guys, I think it would be a nightmare. We'd be arguing as to where the stairs actually start, if the areas below the pillars could be divided into sections (11.5 to 13 as I'm counting) to determine stair count. The Jefferson nickle only has 4 primary step grading areas; easy to determine. Will the devises on the stairs obscure the stair or prove the stair extends beyond the device. How about the areas that extend beyond the corners of the memorial? Are those steps or foundation? Man I can hear the Philadelphia Lawyers now.... It's not a nightmare, it's completely cut and dry. The steps start at the base of the building and continue up to the base of the pillars. SIMPLE There's two types of steps used, fine and corse. In 1983 they temporarily switched from the 19 step type to the 8 step type. In 1985 they returned to the 19 step design which persisted until the final issue in 2008. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19935 Posts |
Quote:
so may I ask what are the hardest years to achive full step and aint there 2 types of steps?
Many years are difficult to find full step examples. I simply cannot list them all. Also, a few years are IMPOSSIBLE to find because the master die was worn, i.e. 1971. Other issues show mostly poor quality steps due to die wear. Remember, most LMCs were made using MDS/LDS and over-polished dies. See above for the answer to your second question. Lincoln Cent Lover!VERDI-CARE™ INVENTOR https://verdi.care/
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Valued Member
United States
255 Posts |
Hmmm, I am going to have to go and check my cents. I never thought tocheck the steps on the reverse.
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Valued Member
United States
455 Posts |
Awesome photographs Stewart, and those steps just glisten!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2448 Posts |
Still researching the LMC "Full Step" issue. I still maintain, after checking all my proof and MS LMCs, that this designation is a selling tool and not a variation. I believe this to be a way to say "the coin has Full Devices" which is required for high grading. As far as I can determine, PCGS and ANA have not yet responded to my emails, only dealers use this designation. PCGS nor the ANA, that I can determine at this time, identify any special grading category for this designation. I've re-read Bowers, Brine, and several other books and scoured the Internet on the subject. If anyone has a reference, I'll gladly read and incorporate into my library. I don't mind being wrong, I don't like being wrong and not learning from the experience. I'll be happy to take direction from the experts. |
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Valued Member
United States
110 Posts |
stewart: If your still on Coin Community (six years after your 2010 posting) , I would like to know who has possession of the 1974 Lincoln Cent with the "perfect" set of Memorial steps, as illustrated in your 2010 posted thread on FMS. It's the only image of a Lincoln Memorial that I could find on the Internet with all 19 steps clearly detailed. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1126 Posts |
pocketchange2, The 1974 Lincoln Cent in the photograph above was photographed by me and was mine at the time. I gave that particular coin to a close friend quite awhile ago that has a very strong interest in Lincoln Cents.Almost as strong as my well known interest in Eisenhower dollars :) I still keep my eyes open for particularly well struck Lincoln Cents like the one above in the hopes that one day the grading services will begin to recognize them in some meaningful way such as a Full Steps Designation, or something along those lines. I have yet to run across one as full struck as the one above. I believe and hope that one day they will be recognized for how truly rare they are...Thank You For Asking Stewart |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
I still haven't got around to counting the steps on the Lincoln Cent. I wonder how many show up on the 1983 reverse Doubled Die? Might be twice as many |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19935 Posts |
Carl....  |
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Replies: 23 / Views: 7,216 |
Posted 12/24/2010 11:08 am
