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An Interesting Article On Coin Verdigris

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USArmyParatrooper's Avatar
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 Posted 01/03/2011  1:36 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add USArmyParatrooper to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Important Note: When you get to the bottom of this article you realize it ends up product endorsement. I have no association with the author, and I have no idea if his/her product is effective or if it's pure snake oil.

I did think there's some interesting material for discussion within, so here you go.


http://reviews.ebay.com/How-to-Remo...000017991989

Quote:
ABOUT THE AUTHOR

I am a numismatist and chemist in the metalworking fluid industry with over 22 years of experience. I am in the final stages of finishing a book on the topic of coin verdigris. As an avid Lincoln Cent collector, the subject of coin verdigris removal has been of interest to me for many years. This guide has been written to help my fellow numismatists/conservationists address the problem of coin verdigris.


WHAT IS VERDIGRIS?

Verdigris is a term used to describe the corrosion of metallic copper. Copper is a very reactive metal, it will readily combine with many elements to form verdigris. Verdigris is NOT a living organism! This is a somewhat common misconception or folklore tale. It is not a virus, bacteria, fungus or mold. Coin verdigris is a complex mixture of many chemical compounds. For this reason, the removal of verdigris from coins can be somewhat complicated. Here is the definition of verdigris that I posted to Wikipedia:

Verdigris is a complex chemical mixture of compounds, complexes and water. The primary components are copper salts of acetate, carbonate, chloride, formate, hydroxide and sulfate. The secondary components are other metallic salts, acids (organic and mineral), atmospheric gases and water. All the components are in an ever-changing and extremely sophisticated electrochemical reaction equilibrium that is dependent on the ambient environment.

HOW TO REMOVE VERDIGRIS


A simple internet search will produce many methods of verdigris removal. People have suggested methods including: lemon juice, catsup, acetone, mineral spirits, etc. The problems with these methods are many fold and most of them result in damaging the coin. The methods that don't damage the coin will turn out to be ineffective. Perhaps the best way to address verdigris for most collectors is to neutralize it and stop it's growth. This is something to seriously consider before you end up damaging your coin. If the verdigris bothers you, I generally suggest buying a coin to replace the problem coin.

First you need to make sure you have verdigris. Often people mistake a green residue for verdigris. Always verify the substance is verdigris by following what I call the SOLVENT POLARITY LADDER. Soak the coin in the following solvents for a few minutes (10-20) to see if the residue is removed. These are all coin safe chemicals.

1. Distilled water
2. Acetone (do NOT use fingernail polish remover)
3. Xylene

If the residue was removed be happy! You didn't have verdigris!

If you choose to neutralize and halt the verdigris, I suggest the following steps:

1. Add just a few grains of baking soda to about 20-mL of distilled water and dissolve.
2. Soak the coin in the solution for about an hour. Make sure all of the verdigris is exposed to the solution.
3. Remove the coin, rinse with fresh distilled water and pat dry with a coin-safe towel (do not rub).
4. Soak the coin in a high-grade acetone (do NOT use fingernail polish remover) for about 5 minutes.
5. Remove the coin and allow it to air dry for about a minute. Acetone evaporates QUICKLY.
6. Immediately store the coin in an Air-Tite brand capsule (or equivalent). Water and air are the feed materials for verdigris formation. If they are kept away from the coin, the verdigris cannot grow.



Alright, you decided that the verdigris has got to go so you'll still reading. Unfortunately, ALL of the methods outlined on the internet will either damage your coin or they will be ineffective. You are more than welcome to figure this out for yourself, but I suggest practicing on some non-valuable coins first. Don't dive in and start trying the internet suggestions on your fine coin or you'll make a mistake you will always regret. There's a fine line between CONSERVING and CLEANING a coin! Once you cross the line, there is no turning back. Your coin will be ruined forever if you clean it AND the value will be substantially less than from when you started. If you do try these methods, I suggest diluting the chemicals with distilled water to start. Use a very weak solution first, then increase the concentration later if the weak stuff isn't working.

I'll outline some of the methods recommended on the internet and the problems you'll have with them:

* OLIVE OIL - This is the most commonly suggested method. While it can sometimes be effective, it will usually alter the patina due to the acids present. It can also take months to work and the collector risks the oil turning bad during the process. Most brown, copper patinas are soluble in the oil so a layer will be removed and the coin will look different. Also, olive oil will only remove the lightest of verdigris from the surface, it will have no effect on the moderate to heavy stuff. If you soak for months, be sure to change out the oil every week or so.
* LEMON JUICE (ORGANIC ACIDS) - Sometimes used with tin foil, lemon juice is highly acidic. It will be effective at verdigris removal, but the acid WILL damage the coin surface resulting in a cleaned coin. This applies to ALL juices including catsup, they are all acidic cleaners and will damage the coin surface quickly.
* VINEGAR (ORGANIC ACIDS) - Effectively the same as using lemon juice but the acid is a little weaker. Vinegar is also very acidic (acetic acid). While it may be effective at removing verdigris, it's also effective at stripping the surface resulting in a cleaned coin. Be sure to dilute it with water to reduce the strength.
* ELECTROLYSIS - Very effective at removing verdigris, but it will completely strip the coin! When you're done you'll have a bright and cleaned coin that most collectors will reject. The only time electrolysis is very useful is with heavily encrusted coins. GREAT care must be taken with this method because it will EAT your coin until it's no more. It easy to lose ALL of the coin detail doing this so take caution.
* LIGHTER FLUID/ORGANIC SOLVENTS - Verigris is mainly composed of inorganic salts that are insoluble in organic solvents. Solvents such as acetone, xylene, mineral spirits generally have NO EFFECT on verdgirs. Using these solvents is a complete waste of time. The only thing they are useful for is to dehydrate and inactive the verdigris because they will not remove it.
* COMMERCIAL CLEANERS - There's a few products out there (usually powders) that contain trisodium phosphate or other chelating agents. Just as the name implies, you will end up with an obviously cleaned coin should you decide to use them. They will remove verdigris, but they will also remove a layer of metal from the surface. Use at VERY low concentrations to start. If the directions say use a tablespoon, use 1/10 of a tablespoon.
* AMMONIA - Horrible idea! It will remove verdigris but just like the commercial cleaners, it will remove metal from the surface resulting in a cleaned coin. If you try it, do a HEAVY dilution in distilled water.
* HYDROGEN PEROXIDE - Again, we have another harsh chemical that will remove verdigris, but it will also clean the coin and remove the patina. Another chemical that should be diluted before use.
* DRY RUBBING - Many people suggest using a toothpick or a rose thorn to remove verdigris. This is actually one of the better techniques out there since it only involves physical removal and there are no chemicals that may damage the coin. However, should you decide to use this method, DO NOT DRY RUB. Dry rubbing may leave micro-scratches on the surface. Submerge the coin in distilled water, allow it to soak for about an hour, then try rubbing off the verdigris (while the coin is submerged). At first, try an up and down tapping motion to avoid the chances of making scratches on the surface. If it's not working, then start gently rubbing. Be careful! It's easy to rub off the patina.

I'm sure there's many more methods you will find on the web. While they may work to various degrees, they will probably damage your coin in the process. Remember, once you've gone too far and cleaned your coin - there is no turning back! So be very, very careful! Always practice on non-valuable coins first!

CONCLUSION

As a chemist, verdigris has always interested and frustrated me. I am a fairly hardcore collector of Lincoln cents and verdigris is something us copper collectors cannot avoid. When I started collecting I had no idea of how to address the problem so I turned to the internet and asked many questions. Unfortunately, I received a lot of bad advice along the way. Recommendations from using catsup to mineral spirits were given to me. Keeping an open mind, I tested each and every method suggested only to be disappointed in the outcomes. At this point I began to seriously study verdigris and I became so obsessed and knowledgeable about the topic I decided to write a book about it. After nearly two years I'm almost finished with it. In the process of writing the book I greatly increased my knowledge and decide to develop my own chemical to remove verdigris. Many hours of laboratory research and testing resulted in my first commercial product VERDI-GONEâ„¢. It was able to remove light to moderate verdigris with minimal effects to the coin surfaces. However, VERDI-GONEâ„¢ could not be used on brilliant uncirculated coins because it was shown to dull the surfaces so I had to keep pushing on.

I was still not satisfied, I wanted a product that would not only work faster, but would enhance the surfaces and have less of a chance of altering the patina. My latest verdigris removal and conservation fluid is called VERDI-CAREâ„¢. After many hours in the lab I've finally developed a product that I use reguarly on my coins with verdigris. The highlights of VERDI-CAREâ„¢:

1. Fast! - Light to moderate verdigris is typically removed within seconds.
2. Safe - Preserves and enhances the patina instead of stripping it. Safe for use on BU coins.
3. Health Safe - No harsh chemicals, safe on skin and eyes, non-corrosive, non-carcinogenic.

If you're interested in purchasing my product, please ebay or google search VERDI-CAREâ„¢.

Thanks for reading my guide and I hope you found it helpful! :)
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 01/03/2011  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You know who made Verdi-Care? BadThad
John1
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Maineman750's Avatar
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 Posted 01/03/2011  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We all know about Verdi-Care...just do a search on here...BadThad has a special going for CCF members right now
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 01/03/2011  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yup, BadThad is the author and developer of VERDI-CARE.

You can follow the devolopment and testing here...

https://goccf.com/t/62434

You can read about the predecessor product (VERDI-GONE) here...

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...PIC_ID=30324
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USArmyParatrooper's Avatar
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 Posted 01/03/2011  4:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USArmyParatrooper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
LOL Wow, don't I feel silly. I hope it didn't come across like I was saying anything bad about his product. I basically was just saying I know nothing about it, as I didn't want it to sound like I was pushing a product I have never used. I thought the article was interesting and informative so I posted it. Incidentally I just ran across his article by happenstance.
Edited by USArmyParatrooper
01/03/2011 4:08 pm
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 01/03/2011  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ahhh....shucks...

People don't appreciate how difficult it is raising all these snakes! Getting the oil out is harder than you think!
Lincoln Cent Lover!
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https://verdi.care/
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 Posted 01/03/2011  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes I have bought a couple bottles, have had some success well worth my purchase price already and have a lot left to use up yet.
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cwb1877's Avatar
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 Posted 01/03/2011  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb1877 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have used Verdi-Care and I can tell you it is effective. I have been very pleased with BadThad's product!

(I don't have any affiliation)
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carmykle's Avatar
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 Posted 01/03/2011  10:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add carmykle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Turn in your jump wings, you're acting like a "Leg".

You obviously don't collect copper coins. Actually, I use it to conserve all kinds of coins. Although, I don't use it on MS pieces.
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xshift's Avatar
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 Posted 01/03/2011  11:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't use it on MS pieces.


I have. There are 4 test Lincolns around here somewhere, all MS, 2 had verdigris and 2 did not. I'm letting them sit a while to check for any weirdness, but so far (as of a couple weeks ago, no idea where they ran off to) they're perfectly fine.
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 Posted 01/04/2011  02:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnstac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for sharing that article. Thad has sent me some of his product. I haven't tried it yet as I wasn't completely sold on the acetone thing but in another thread, the ANACS has recommended its use so I think I will test it out on some cents as well as the Verdi-Care and check out the results.
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 Posted 01/04/2011  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have used it successfully on some MS pieces as well.

It is not intended for proofs, Thad will tell you that, so I have never tried it on any.
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USArmyParatrooper's Avatar
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 Posted 01/04/2011  12:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USArmyParatrooper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Turn in your jump wings, you're acting like a "Leg".

You obviously don't collect copper coins. Actually, I use it to conserve all kinds of coins. Although, I don't use it on MS pieces.


I have tons of copper coins. What makes you say that?
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 01/04/2011  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Check your email trooper! I'd like to offer you a free sample for your service to our country.

Thanks
Lincoln Cent Lover!
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https://verdi.care/
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1lostcoin's Avatar
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 Posted 01/04/2011  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1lostcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So just to get things straight in my mind. If I just have some kind of crud on a copper penny I should be able to clean it up using Acetone and not hurt the penny right? Now will that also bring the shine back to the penny? But if a penny has this Verdigris (from what I seen from pictures none of mine have it so far) I can us Verdi-Care and that will take it off. Now will that bring the shine back to the penny also? Sorry don't mean to sound dumb I just don't want to wreck a penny by doing something the wrong way.
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USArmyParatrooper's Avatar
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 Posted 01/04/2011  4:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USArmyParatrooper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Thad. I responded.
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