1767 Pillar Dollar With Yii Counter Stamp Real?

Beriner1 Based on a quick look and no other supporting information, I am concerned that both the host and the stamp are NOT real.

The majority of counterstamps were positioned intentionally on the Dos Mundos - not in the field and not on the shield. Perhaps some originals were placed there BUT I am not aware of that being the case. This is my primary concern.

I also noticed that the left globe (the one with North America) does not seem to show the details of the hemisphere in the correct places.

Does the coin have overlaps of equal lengths? Are they opposite? You did capture one overlap in the edge shot you took.

What is the exact weight of the coin?

Hi swamperbob and jfransch. thanks a lot for taking a look. it has 2 overlaps, at the top and at the bottom both edges follow the same direction.



I had it checked at a local collector who owns a shop and he said that it's a fake! but its made of real silver and is around 27 grams. (I don't have a digital weighing scale). he said that it came from one of the southern provinces and that one of his friends also purchased one very similar to mine last year. the weird thing was he offered to buy it from me for 5000 pesos around $116. What does that mean? do fake coins also have value? or is my coin authentic and he just wants get a good price for it?

Bought the coin from ebay which is a red flag. If that helps.

The edge laps look like they are the same length and I see no priority issues. That is good and bad news. If the coin is real - it is great supportive information. BUT if the coin is a forgery (and I am not yet convinced it is not) then it means that the forgery is VERY Modern. Period forgeries and even those made into the 1950's never got the edges right.

I am still open to the possibility of the coin being a forgery because of the edge design (a bit too nice for the surfaces) and the color and die surface textures. Those are VERY SUBJECTIVE points that are usually disposed of quickly in person under a microscope.

You ask if a counterfeit can be worth $100 or more? The answer is by all means YES. MUCH MORE. Several are worth thousands (none in the Mexican series however.) A real period forgery of a Pillar Dollar is worth over $200 to collectors like myself. I own only one that I consider to be Contemporary. A modern forgery in silver even a very well done fake is rarely worth $100. I have paid $100 on a couple occasions for particularly deceptive coins BUT that is not their actual market value. I would buy ONE and only one copy at that price and not chase the type again. I see modern forgeries as worth $15 over intrinsic value AT THE MOST. Less for common junk struck in off metal.

This coin is potentially a double forgery with the YII c/s so it might be worth $40 as a modern fake - if you add $5 for the c/s.

A modern forgery MAY be the correct assay. A period forgery of this coin WILL NOT be full weight silver. I know of NO copies of this series that fall into the "Boston" period of 1870-1930. They may exist but so far I do not believe it. But I do stand to be corrected if someone has an attributed specimen of that age.

jfranch - thanks for the info on stamp location. I will check it out. I know holed coins were stamped over the hole on both sides but that was the only variation I knew of that was accepted as original.

Thanks for the info swamperbob.

Size of the punch is 9mm then width of the crown is 6 mm. Already bought a digital weighing scale in ebay. I'll upload the weight and sg as soon as possible.

WIDTH OF COIN = 37mm
THickness = 3 1/2 mm

What are the other things in the coin based on the pictures that looks odd to you? Any other things that I should measure and check?

This fake has been around on ebay for around 3 years. 1 appears every couple of months. Its nothing special I personally have seen 100's of these fakes theyre generally on 1767 lima pillar dollars. If it was genuine it would be worth $10,000 or more. I bet it was only purchased for a few $100 or so. Be suspicious if something sells too cheap. Normally means its fake! Unlikely it has not been spotted by other ebay members. The person whome sold it to you is lying. He knows its fake. I think you purchased this one on ebay philippines from a chinese seller whome sells fake pillar dollars. I saw this counterstamp I think 2 or 3 weeks ago listed on ebay.

I found the original listing. There where around 15 shill bids and the last bid this unsuspecting buyer managed to win the coin. Sold for $300.

Same key damage mark on the mintmark left of date. That can be a good marker to spot this fake.

This last one uses an older forgery of the YII counterstamp with the open top. Those were first reported in the 1960s and were written up in the Numismatist (it was October but I forget which year). Anyway the real YII stamps always had arcs that closed toward the top of the crown. These arc are far too straight and open at the top.

This type of fraud will haunt the hobby for years to come.

I wonder how many sellers AFTER getting burned with one of these fakes will turn around and post it again hoping to find another sucker?