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1900 O/Cc VAM 8? Or VAM 8A?: Information And Opinions

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reubank's Avatar
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 Posted 01/16/2011  11:04 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add reubank to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Good Day All, New here and want to thank all who take the time to help us Numismatic Newbies out. Pictures below is a 1900 O/CC VAM-8A (or is it a VAM8)... I have recently acquired. Coin is in remarkable shape, but what about this "Toning" and what are the chances of it grading at PCGS? I've had two collectors look at it and would like your all's opinion too. Thanks in advance.

1900-O/Cc-VAM-8?-Or-VAM-8A?:-Information-And-Opinions

1900-O/Cc-VAM-8?-Or-VAM-8A?:-Information-And-Opinions
Edited by reubank
01/17/2011 11:03 am
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 01/16/2011  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to Coin Community, reubank. Nice coin, nice pics.

I wonder if it's VAM-8 rather than 8A - I don't see the rust around the mint mark characteristic of 8A. That would work in your favor, as 8 seems rarer on the ground than 8A.

My guess is that PCGS will be hesitant to slab based on the toning. If I may assume the color in your shots is accurate, I think they'll conclude that it came to be as the result of a non-natural process. It's a bit too uniform for the color, showing no color progression over the face of the coin. By the time the entire surface is of one color, that color should probably be darker than what I see here.

With that said, myself, I don't believe artificial methods were used to color the coin in a deliberate sense. I suspect the coin recently (as in, the last 25-30 years) spent time in an environment conducive to toning. PCGS is very leery when it comes to color, though.
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Ozland's Avatar
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 Posted 01/16/2011  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ozland to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS is color phobic.
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reubank's Avatar
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 Posted 01/16/2011  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add reubank to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Dave for the information. I'm waiting for magnification pictures back that show the mint mark better and the left shifting of the "O". Would it be worth send it in and having a "Top 100 VAM 8 (or 8A)" label in plastic with a "Not Gradable" title? Is there a market out there for VAM coins? I think the coin is in great shape take out the color. It's just a shame that a coin of this quality was not stored and handled with the care it deserved. A true piece of history. The seller told me that it was from her grandfather's coin collection and it was found in a cardboard coin holder which stated 1900 O/CC, but she never declared where or how it was stored.
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MacMan's Avatar
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 Posted 01/16/2011  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MacMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A closeup of the mint mark would help.
1900-O/Cc-VAM-8?-Or-VAM-8A?:-Information-And-Opinions
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 01/16/2011  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure it's worth the money of slabbing, "Details" or not. Neither 8 nor 8A are particularly rare; ANACS has graded over 100 of each.
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reubank's Avatar
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 Posted 01/16/2011  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add reubank to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks again for the information. This is the best I can do at the moment with the Mint Mark...



1900-O/Cc-VAM-8?-Or-VAM-8A?:-Information-And-Opinions
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 01/17/2011  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
VAM-8 it is, I believe. These are a fascinating group of coins. Not so much that they'd alter unused CC dies - that would stand to reason, given how much effort went into making a die - but seven years after the Carson City Mint closed?

There is a story in there, someplace.
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Ozland's Avatar
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 Posted 01/17/2011  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ozland to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In 1900 Five Discarded Dies From The Carson City Mint (CC Mint Mark) Which Had Closed In 1893 Were Sent To The New Orleans Mint (O Mint Mark) For Use And Were Subsequently Repunched With The "O" Mint Mark. As A Result, The "O/CC" Variety Is Much Sought After. The Remains Of The Former "CC" Mint Mark Centered Under The "O" Mint Mark Is Clearly Visible From These Dies. There Are Five Known Varieties And They Are All Considered Quite Scarce. Experts believe the 1900-O/CC "error" dollars constituted a small fraction of the total mintage for 1900-O perhaps only about 10-percent.

Why were they sent in the first place? Perhaps someone might research this question.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 01/17/2011  11:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
12.6 million 1900-O's were minted, a *huge* number for New Orleans. A die shortage is not hard to imagine. What I can't grok is why CC dies were still handy. This one is very high on my "I gotta know why someday" list, Ozland.
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reubank's Avatar
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 Posted 01/18/2011  12:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add reubank to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just got the magnification photos from the photographer. This is the Mint Mark on the 1900 O/CC that I'm asking for opinions on VAM-8 or VAM-8A....


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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 01/18/2011  12:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The difference between 8 and 8A is the presence or absence of clashing. Your coin is not clashed. Therefore, 8. Not 8A.

Edit: for reasons we've mentioned, *any* O/CC is a fascinating coin. I think the 10% figure is an outside estimate. This coin is a "keeper."
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reubank's Avatar
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 Posted 01/18/2011  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add reubank to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Dave
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aladinslamp's Avatar
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 Posted 01/18/2011  12:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
VAM 8 not 8A, I couldn't see the rust with the previous photo's and I am positive with your last photo there is no rust, but one question I have, is the golden "even tone" we saw on the initial photo's of the coin is the same color we see, as you have it it hand? Often the photo's we take don't exactly show the same color I have in hand...
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reubank's Avatar
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 Posted 01/18/2011  12:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add reubank to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep the color in the initial photos are "as in hand". I've been told by others that it's not natural, but was not properly stored. I call this my "Toning Education Coin". Should have researched more on coloring before I pulled the trigger and bought it..... oh well "We Live and We Learn.... (we hope)" The coin itself (minus the coloring) is in spectacular shape, so I'm contemplating on having it slabbed at PCGS.
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