| Author |
 Replies: 12 / Views: 1,868 |
|
|
Valued Member
Sweden
159 Posts |
Hello there. I'm a bit intrigued by the VAM-hobby, and was thinking of learning the basics. I have four Morgan dollars, which I mistakenly posted in one topic, with a total filesize of 24mb. I'm sorry for that. My Morgans are in quite crude shape, as most of my inherited coins. However there's nothing that can be done about that fact. I'd appreciate if someone could introduce me shortly of the "how to" in Vamming. I've read quite a few topics in this section but I'm still very very uneducated. I have this 1882 S, Morgan, which I'd like to find out for myself which VAM it could be. As far as I know, the first things to look at is the Mintmark and the date. See if there is anything special to them, and then go to vamworld-page and start comparing. Next comes ears, lips?   Total filesize of 3,1mbI'm asking for someone to nudge me in the right direction, when I try this on my own. Thanks for any help. |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
You have the fundamental Idea correct, for the coin in general we look at the date placement in reference to the dentils and the Mint Mark for its position, centered, set left or tilted one way or the other, other primary points are date numbers for doubling as often times the doubling and Mint mark doubling or its placement plays a significant part in narrowing the VAM number...For instance your date placement is normal and the Mint Mark is tilted left...with only 30 vams to research you may be able to narrow it down if the pictures are present as in many years only descriptions are given... AS secondary diagnostics are concerned your pictures show, On the OBV the eye appears to have a spike in the rear of the eye, and there are die scratches in the cotton bowls...I do think some of the date is doubled,you will have to check out what you can find with the above clues to get started,,,Hope this helps..I'll have to check back later after work, and  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
Yeah, you are on the right track for sure. Nice coin there! As you research, you will notice each series usually has a key identifier that will help figure which variety you have. It could be the date and mint mark locations, or something in particular like die scratches, gouges, doubling, reed count, number of berries on the wreath, long/short knock, spitting eagle, etc.
|
|
Valued Member
 Sweden
159 Posts |
 1, could be doubled, but it's hard to see because of damage. The right side of is very uneven. 8, strongly doubled on the left inside of the upper loop, and slighty doubled on the left inside of the lower loop. 8, Looks like it could be doubled on the left inside of the upper loop as well. Also on the left outside of the upper loop. 2, Could be doubled on the inside of the beginning of the 2. As well as under the middlesection of the 2.. Mintmark tilted left. Eye - spike. Cotton bowls - die scratches. Now I'll go see if I can narrow it down.. :) This is so confusing.. in my opinion my coin have some things that match in each VAM, but not a complete match to any VAM at all with a left tilted mintmark.. Edited by Tomten
01/18/2011 4:01 pm
|
|
Valued Member
Sweden
159 Posts |
I've been trying, first to orientate me at how the VAMWORLDpage actually works. I think I got it right when going to Reverses and checking which VAMs that had mintmarks tilted to the left. This were the options;
3
11
18
21
23
25
I then started looking at my plausable doublings and compared to these Vams. My coin seem to have a doubling on the first 8, on the left inside of both loops (in my humble opinion). The only VAMs with doubling on the inside of loops of first 8 in this list are;
11 and 18.
That's how far I've got.. I can't decide if my guess is 11 or 18. So my guess is simply; 11 or 18.
Edited by Tomten
01/18/2011 3:42 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
After having a chance to look over your coin, its a tuff coin to attribute..one must have to look at all of the points we find and review these puzzle features which match the most we can find, as with this year there are no BIG money vams here so they temd to just post the bare minimum points... Your review of possibles is correct..  I did notice one more small point, that is found only on one VAM for this year ...so lets stir the pot a bit and review what we do know..   doubling in the 882 and tilted MM..possibles are VAM's 3,11,18,23,25 Vam3 HAS a die chip in the left 8,,yours doesn't,,not 3.. again die chips in the first 8 again...not VAM 11.. VAM 13 "no chips in the first 8 or second 8.....Here's where it gets interesting...There is a small die chip on your second 8, between the (right side) upper and lower loop.... So its not VAM 13 yours has no die chip... next VAM 18 no die chips...not VAM 18 next up is VAM 21, BIG die chip in the first 8...not VAM 21 now VAM 25 but its not a slant date..not VAM 25... the last to compare with is VAM 23....this is the only date where there is a die chip in the second 8, and the apparent doubling is very close as they are doubled on the right side of the numbers...although the REV picture is not show, one must assume that it is tilted left, Having the coin feel free to disagree... So what do we have....while most vams have definitive pictures it still takes the STUDY OF COMPARISONS to narrow the VAM down. Since there are no full pictures for 100% verification,,by process of eliminating what it can't be, we also can narrow the VAM down,,,Take a look and see what you think and at a minimum review the process..in years like 1881,81, and some 1879's series there is little to go on....Other years this same process will YIELD GREAT RESULTS...as the clues you find can be found and 100% proof....I hope this helps some understanding....  Additional points you can look for is the doubling of the ear inside and out.... sometimes die cracks and die brakes are VAM specific... |
|
Valued Member
Sweden
159 Posts |
Ah okay. I understand how you're thinking. My thinking was simply that I thought it was a doubling at the left inside of the loop, and 11 and 18 were the only ones with that. 1882-S VAM-23 Doubled 1-82, S Tilted Left, it says, and since I thought there was a doubling on the first 8, I neglected VAM 23 at the beginning. (As I could see it, doubling on the first 8 was the only sure thing to go on) I'm new with die chips, die cracks and these sorts of "errors". Thanks for all your help. Will probably put up another Morgan dollar for the same procedure. However I might make some research and come to a conclusion before posting :) Thanks again! |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Years such as this have few great vams, and as such..there is limited information for common coins.....yet they are vams, despite they are common.....In fact the point of your spike int the eye has not been mentioned...'it could be something new....!!
|
|
Valued Member
Sweden
159 Posts |
I guess when it comes to VAMs, there will be new discovers quite regularly. Just look at the variety of VAMs that have been listed, I'm sure there will be many many more VAMs eventually.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Gene, this is what is wrong with the VAMIT thread..... It isn't so easy when you don't have coin in hand and can look at it from all angles and see everything there is to see is it? No, it isn't the same thing at all.... being limited to what is shown from a couple of online pictures taken at certain angles is like a marksman aiming at a target while wearing a blindfold.... If you attempt to teach anyone anything about attribution, the student needs to have coin in hand, not just the teacher. Quote:so lets stir the pot a bit and review what we do know..doubling in the 882 and tilted MM..possibles are VAM's 3,11,18,23,25 Really? I don't see any tilted MM, so your possibilities would be certain eliminations to me.... as far as date doubling goes, I'm not sure what you are seeing in those 8s, but with the way the light is hitting the tops of the digits, the top of the 1 is the only place I see what I think might be die doubling. |
|
Valued Member
Sweden
159 Posts |
I can take better pictures, (as I already have, for my own research on the coins, a few minutes after uploading these old ones.) at any angle you'd like. I agree with Zeewool that it's a whole lot different from looking at a few pictures compared to see the coin in real life. I can't argue with what you see or not, since I don't have any experience at all when it comes to die doubling. However on the inside of the upper loop on the first 8, that's something that looks like a strong doubling to me, as can be seen on e.g VAM 11 or 18. The tilt of MM, is it done easiest by a few straight lines from the edges and upward for comparison? |
|
Valued Member
United States
104 Posts |
wow, so far, this is a great teaching thread. Please keep this one going too.
|
|
Valued Member
Sweden
159 Posts |
Here is a better picture with the light coming from the side instead.  (A tip for the non-computer-geeks, press and hold CTRL while you scroll your mousewheel to zoom in and out. ) Edited by Tomten
01/21/2011 04:15 am
|
| |
Replies: 12 / Views: 1,868 |
|
Posted 01/18/2011 1:34 pm
