Mexico 1886 Something...

8 reale. Zs JS mint mark for the Zacatecas mint. Fairly common issue. Should weigh about 27 grams.

Everyone so far is correct, but there is a bit more to know about this particular coin.

First - this coin is a part of the Second Republic issue of 8 Reales. The First Republic issue of 8R Resplandores lasted from independence (1823) until the advent of the Emperor Maximillian in (1864). The Second Republic resumed production of 8Rs primarily for use in the export of silver and except for the brief introduction of the Balance Scale Pesos (1870-73) the production continued until 1897.

During this final period of time (1874-1887), Mexico established a central die shop in Mexico City which began making dies for all of the branch mints. The Dragon's Teeth visible on both sides of the central lower Ray were added to all dies. Standardization was necessary to help with the control of counterfeiting by making all of the 8Rs virtually identical. During this period the old manual screw presses were finally retired and were replaced with steam presses. The edging mill also evolved from a manual one-at-a-time operation to a ten planchet at one time powered apparatus which produced a nearly continuous stream of finished planchets.

The 1888 Zs FZ is the second year of issue of "Standardized" 8 Reales from the Zacatecas mint. The dies were made in Mexico City and the assayer initials FZ refer to Francisco de Zarate. The Zacatecas mint was operated under a lease by the Sociedad Guanajuatense Zacatecana during 1888.

The coin is common but there is a rare overdate 8/7 noted for this year. The OD is clear in the upper loop of the second 8. Your coin seems to have the normal date. But this is one of those cases where Cherry Picking is possible. Krause price lists show very little increase in value for the OD while it is actually very hard to find. It is an OD that should be priced higher.

There are very few counterfeits made of the Standardized die issues - and the ones that are fake are usually very easy to spot based on weight or alloy. The color here is likely due to cleaning, but I would remove the coin and weigh it before ruling a forgery out totally.

At $35 you have paid full retail for this date. I would grade the coin between Fine and Very Fine.

You are right it has to be a 6 - hard for me to see, but now that you point it out the eagle die is NOT the standard die AND the assayer initials are JS not FZ - I have no idea why I fixated on the 88 date. Dragon's teeth were not used in 1886.

gxseries You have what may be a rare overdate. The overdate is rather hard to spot especially on a worn copy like yours. There are three small spots where the OD usually shows. At the top there is a thin horizontal line (part of the top of the 5) that shows very weakly as it protrudes out of the very top of the 6. this line is perhaps 1/10th mm in length and may have been worn off. In the upper loop of the 6 at the left side the letter is just a shade thicker caused by the upright line on the left side of the 5. This is even smaller than the horizontal line and on a worn copy is almost never visible. The third part of the under digit is the thing I would expect to see on a worn coin but the photo is washed out at this point. The small ball at the terminus of the lower loop of the 5 extends into the inside of the lower loop of the 6. It is prominent and even on a worn copy it should still be visible.

1886,no overdate

weinidaxiong Thank you for posting a picture of an encapsulated copy (which service did the grading?

odentheviking Because the coin in question is rather worn only the deepest part of the eye clearly shows - the dot. If you compare it with the encapsulated coin, you can see that the eye is actually a two level detail deeper near the beak and weaker as you proceed to the left. Wear has removed all but the deepest part.

Wear can make a coin change appearance in subtle ways. I still do not see anything that worries me based on a photo.

I did notice a VERY INTERESTING feature however, that the s superscripts on the assay legend and even the mint mark are tilted. This observation supports the idea that in 1886 Zacatecas was still using a partial hub to create their working dies. The superscripts, being low relief and tiny, may have been reserved as finishing touches to be added after primary hubbing. This would in turn mean that Zs dies as late as 1886 are in fact subject to variation and could be classified individually. I had not actually suspected that was the case after the 1870s. Interesting potential.

Of course, this could also be a case of die repair. Die repair at this time was not as common as in the 1830s or 1840s but still did occur. The coin would be worth studying closely to determine why the s superscripts are not positioned radially as is conventional.

Apologies for the late reply and hopefully these are better photos. These are the original photos that I took and I haven't reshot them since then as I have to leave again in 8 hours time and be back next weekend...

http://www.gxseries.com/dump/IMGP0173.jpg

http://www.gxseries.com/dump/IMGP0174.jpg

Hopefully they will be of some use. I still don't think it's an overdate but found it fun as it created this interesting conversation. Couldn't believe that swamperbob missed his diagnostics initally

Thanks Swamperbob and Realpeso, I have to say that from all I have read here ref. this style coin, I have decided to not collect them due to the high number of fakes and the high quality! of fakes. I will stick to what I "think" I know, that is Pillars.

Real peso, can you shoot me an e-mail when you get a chance? Thanks.