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1879-S Morgan Silver Dollar MS-66

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dogonit's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2011  4:39 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add dogonit to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am new to coin collecting and recently purchased an 1879-S Morgan silver dollar MS-66. This was at an auction and I did not have my Red Book available, I am aware of the general grading system and do not purchase coins below a VS grade. I had not even realized the grading until I had the coin and went to look up it's value. There is no mention of a MS-66 grading in the 64th Edition of the Official Red Book. I would greatly appreciate any help. Graded by NTC (Numistrust Corporation).

Thank you!
Valued Member
rustyboy's Avatar
United States
278 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2011  4:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rustyboy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NTC is one of the grading companies that has gotten itself a bad name for inflating grades. In all likelihood, the grade for your coin is a few points below 66. PCGS photograde has valuable photos detailing coins of each grade. The RedBook only hits a few main grades, while the third party graders utilize all of the numbers between 60 and 70. The approximate value of your coin, in "real" MS66 is about $300. In "real" MS62-64 its worth $35-50.

And welcome to the club. Once you start, there is no going back.
Valued Member
cperry8483's Avatar
United States
266 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2011  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cperry8483 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with everything rustyboy said. If you want something with more accurate "real world" pricing, take a look at the link I've given.

If you plan on buying "slabbed" coins in the future, stick with the top TPGs (Third Party Graders): PCGS, NGC, ANACS, and ICG (in that order). Everyone else you should stay far away from until you're better at grading coins yourself because of the overgrading issues that rustyboy touched on.

http://www.numismedia.com/fmv/fmv.shtml
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cperry8483's Avatar
United States
266 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2011  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cperry8483 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PS: Another good thing to do when looking for second opinions on coins is to post a picture of the coin in question. There are many knowledgeable people here that love to help newcomers to the hobby and will be able to tell whether or not you got a good deal on something.

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dogonit's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2011  10:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dogonit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the information and I will be sure to research graders and use the information wisely.
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Landon's Avatar
United States
264 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2011  10:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Landon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why don't you post a picture of the coin and get an idea of how far off the assigned grade is. Based on what I've seen with NTC coins a general rule of thumb is subtract 3-5 points from what they graded it. Most likely your coin is a 62 63.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2011  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have seen NTC coins graded in upper MS grades that were actually AU coins. Some of them are closer but there are some that are way off. At least 1879-S is a good date that has a possibility of being higher grade because I myself have a MS-67 in an old green label PCGS slab so its one of the coins that are still available in real high grades and are rarer in lower grades around MS-62 and below
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dogonit's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2011  11:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dogonit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have sent the coin to be graded by NGC, so when it is graded I will post results. I am hoping that at least I will come close to what I paid for it. I have also researched NTC grading issues and that I can file a claim with NTC's Insurance Company for over grading if that turns out to be the case.

Again, I appreciate all the help.

Can anyone tell me where I can find online coin dealers with excellent reputations? Looking forward to doing some buying in the next two weeks.
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ACE Mike's Avatar
United States
438 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2011  12:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ACE Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1879-S dollars tend to come nice, and are often prooflike. True MS-66's, slabbed by reputable services such as NGC, are valued in the $250 to $275 area on a retail basis. Hopefully you will get a high grade back on your dollar.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2011  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have also researched NTC grading issues and that I can file a claim with NTC's Insurance Company for over grading if that turns out to be the case.

Not if it comes back in a NGC slab marked G6-MS-65 you can't. The only way you can ever do that is if its still in the NTC slab and you send it in for review, of course they will just say they agree with the grade and send the coin back to you since grading is subjective and one mans AU is anothers BU

Quote:
I am hoping that at least I will come close to what I paid for it

We do not know what that is but the prices ACEMike posted are pretty close to what you should have paid for a true MS-66 1879-S Morgan. If it was more than that then you already know you over paid, if its allot less then you can lose a couple points and still be ok.
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dogonit's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2011  2:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dogonit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Bryan1315

I have contacted NTC's insurer and they will review if the grade is more than 5pts different from the original appraisal of M-66. This does not guarantee they will buy back the coin. However, I have read ( ebay Forums) that the insurer will "usually" buy back the coin in question if you have a written appraisal from a reputable company (which is what I have sent for through NGC w/grading).

The way I understood it from others who have had to do the same (filing w/NTC's insurer)the insurer is handling these types of complaints is to buy the coin back, resell it to an auction house to regain part, if not all of their loss. Once the coin is sold by auction no other complaint can be filed, because once a coin graded by NTC is sold at auction the insurance guarantee becomes null and void.

I paid $130.00 for this coin through a private estate sale of a former collector. Prices were marked as wholesale by offering the coin at the least realized Official Red Book value low being at $130 with a high of $300.

Even if it is a lower grade, I over paid and the Insurance will not honor the guarantee, the coin will go into my son's collection I have started for him. He will hopefully see the price of the coin realized at $130 in the extended-extended future.

I try to find the positive within the negative. That being said, I didn't lose hundreds of dollars or in some cases I have read thousands of dollars. The coin is real, so it does have the potential of growth in dollars. I received some really great advice and this will help me as I continue to collect, to make better more informed purchases.
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Ozland's Avatar
United States
709 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2011  4:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ozland to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It has been my experience that NTC is usually two points lower than their posted grade with PCGS. At one hundred thirty dollars you paid for a MS 65 grade.

Grading is subjective and because of that fact each of the third party grading companies use their own grading standards. That way they can put whatever grade on their coins and have little to no repercussion.
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aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2011  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Stick with the top 3 TPG's your money is safer there than any where else,, To many coins are being marketed as MS66 or PL/DMPL and they are not even close, thats why they sell for so much less, and then I think those who by are really buying a $30 to $50 dollar coin and won't get there money back unless they wait another 100 years or so...
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