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Replies: 16 / Views: 2,552 |
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New Member
United States
19 Posts |
I have only been collecting for about 3 months, when I started I thought "First Strike" was a legitimate identification. So my question to the forum, is how did it all start? When did the TPG start putting the "First Strike" label on the slabs and how did they explain it to the collectors?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2365 Posts |
Welcome to the forum!
"First Strike" is a legitimate term:
"A coin struck early in the life of a die. First strikes sometimes are characterized by striated or mirror-like fields if the die was polished. Almost always fully or well struck, with crisp detail."
There is skuttle among the Grading Services to Copyright the term which is ridiculous.
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New Member
 United States
19 Posts |
Sorry, you are correct "First Strike" is a legitimate label. The way the TPG's use it, they will call anything "First Strike" if was sent in to them within the first 30 days. It will be difficult to prove, no?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2365 Posts |
They are stretching the term - yes!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Sibertekt, you might find this interesting reading http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/inde...ion=hotitems "First Strike" The United States Mint has received inquiries from consumers regarding use of the term "first strike." The term has appeared in connection with the advertising and grading of 2005 and 2006 silver, gold, and platinum proof and bullion American Eagle Coins, and the new 2006 24-karat proof and bullion American Buffalo Gold Coins. Currently, there is no widely-accepted and standardized numismatic industry definition of "first strike." Coin dealers and grading services may use this term in varying ways. Some base its use on dates appearing on United States Mint product packaging or packing slips, or on the dates of product releases or ceremonial coin strike events. Consumers should carefully review the following information along with each dealer's or grading service's definition of "first strike" when considering a purchase of coins with this designation. The United States Mint has not designated any 2005 or 2006 American Eagle Coins or 2006 American Buffalo Coins as "first strikes," nor do we track the order in which we mint such coins during their production. The United States Mint held a launch ceremony for the 2006 American Buffalo Gold Coin on June 20, 2006, two days before its release on June 22, at which two proof coins and two uncirculated coins were ceremonially struck. However, those coins were not individually identified and were put in regular inventory after the ceremony. The United States Mint did not hold any striking ceremonies for the 2005 or 2006 American Eagle Coins. The United States Mint strives to produce coins of consistently high quality throughout the course of production. Our strict quality controls assure that coins of this caliber are produced from each die set throughout its useful life. Our manufacturing facilities use a die set as long as the quality of resulting coins meets United States Mint standards, and then replace the dies, continually changing sets throughout the production process. For bullion American Eagle and American Buffalo Coins, the United States Mint makes an average of about 6,000 coins from one die set. For proof versions of the 2006 American Buffalo Coins, the yield is an average of about 1,500 coins per die set. For proof versions of the American Eagle Coins, the yield is an average of about 300-500 coins per die set. This means that coins may be minted from new die sets at any point and at multiple times while production of a coin is ongoing, not just the first day or at the beginning of production. To put this in context, in 2005 the United States Mint produced approximately 356,500 one-ounce gold, 8,891,000 silver, and 6,300 one-ounce platinum American Eagle Bullion Coins. American Eagle and American Buffalo Coins are not individually numbered and the United States Mint does not keep track of the order or date of minting of individual bullion or proof coins. The United States Mint begins production several weeks before these coins are scheduled to be released. By the release dates for 2005 and 2006 bullion coins, the United States Mint had already minted approximately 50% of the projected sales numbers for these coins. Any dates on shipping boxes containing uncirculated bullion coins sent to Authorized Purchasers are strictly for quality control and accounting purposes at the United States Mint at West Point. The date on the box represents the date that the box was packed, verified as 500 ounces and sealed, and the date of packaging does not necessarily correlate with the date of manufacture. The date on shipping labels and packing slips for proof coins, which are sent directly to United States Mint customers from our fulfillment center, is the date the item was packed and shipped by the fulfillment center. The other numbers on the shipping label and packing slip are used to track the order and for quality control.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
First strike is a marketing ploy and nothing more developed by more than likely the TPG's and one of the large bullion buyers,, Do not be fooled by the term, it means nothing.If you want to have something look for coins which are fully struck,, Rick
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2365 Posts |
So the "first strike" Denver Mint State Quarter with the COL from our own Gary Burke means nothing? hmmmm I view my Quarter from him as having a significance beyond a "marketing ploy" TPG style whether or not it increases it's "value" or not. (correction: I believe, without looking, that my Quarter from Gary is "First Day Issue" but, I'm not sure). So why then is the term "first strike" in the forum glossary?
Edited by dsking 09/21/2006 1:22 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Fist day coin covers are not the same as the First strike designation which is applied to the slabbed ASE's,, this designation is an attempt to raise the value of the coin inside without actually raising the grade of the coin. and its in the glossary because it is being used in numismatic circles, right ,wrong or indifferent. and if I remember right the quarters that Gary generously picked up at the release ceremony came from rolls,, and actually have no pedigree from the mint as to minting order. Rick
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2365 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
390 Posts |
This all sounds like a big marketing scam to me. I think the comment about the dealers and the TPG's sounds right. Anything to make a coin seem more valuable so the gullible public will swarm to buy it (hey, I've got a ms69 "first strike" 2005 and 2005 ASE so I'm part of the swarm too!! :)). My cynical side leads me to believe that these coins won't stand the test of time value wise, but I'm still new to this anyways. I would rather put my money into something more proven.
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Valued Member
United States
179 Posts |
Hi all, what a fascinating thread! I particularly like Biokemist6's discourse on mint procedure...It certainly blows a big hole in all these "first strike" labels which IMHO are a marketing ploy to squeeze more bucks out of the "product".
We should always pay attention to the old adage of "Buy the coin, not the holder".
trying hard not to be cynical, but not succeeding, Dennis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
830 Posts |
In my humble opinion, "First Strike" is a rather large scam perpetuated by some TPG's (who will remain nameless!) to enhance their bottom line. I bought a "First Strike" ASE ... Graded MS-69. Look closely at this photo of part of the obverse:  Now, how on earth would this be considered MS-69? And "First Strike"? Baloney. Oh, well, live and learn. Here's the slab so you know I ain't kiddin' ... 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1203 Posts |
quote: Originally posted by Sibertekt
So my question to the forum, is how did it all start? When did the TPG start putting the "First Strike" label on the slabs and how did they explain it to the collectors?
Let's see now, how did it start  One day the 'slabbers' were sitting around waiting for the next shipment of coins, and one said to the other: How could be make more money on this scam? The answer of course is give the public more for their money! What will we give them? Well, lets write 'first strike' on the plastic cover and charge for that. And the venture was so successful that all the other plastic merchants when into using variations of the same thing. You get what you pay for........unless you are buying 'first strike' coins and paying extra for them. The decision is yours, and good luck!
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Member
United States
3242 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Exactly what OldDan said. First strike would mean something if the Mint stamped that on the coin. Or they could make it part of the machinery stamping. Actually things like this are exactly useless terminology. Reminds me of the people that try to sell a bag of wheat back cents and all are unsearched. No one ever thinks of how would someone know what they are unless they searched them. With coins there are so many profit making devices, stories, accessories, slabbed coins, books, shows and on and on and on. Way, way back when I was a kid there wasn't even a Red Book to check out coin information. Today everyone is making some kind of book about coins. Calling a coin a first strike is the same as saying this is the first pencil ever made. On some coin web sites they have now a dictionary of coin terminology. One person on a web site started a entire method of describing a cent such as 1940D-1MM-002 which if adopted by the masses would mean some day a new collector would be asking what the heck is that all about.
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Valued Member
United States
458 Posts |
If I recall, the "First Strike" designation first appeared on ebay about 2 years ago when I was in there everyday buying everything in site. It was PCGS that started this phenom, in fact it was with the 1994 ASE, they apparently found a green box with a early "packing date" of production, so they assume these were created first, which if you read the mints post don't mean when they were made.. They were mostly MS69's & MS68's. The other TPG quickly followed. Whats good for the goose--Of course to me it was an instant "gimmick", away to inflate prices of coins for just typing on the labels 2 words? Come on give me a break  Can anybody tell me the difference bwt a 1994 MS70 FS and a "regular" MS70? Isn't the value the MS70? Are not the coins the same? What if my regular MS70 is actually a first strike? can the TPG tell me now? after the fact? It's all BS, what I find insulting is the "outrageous prices" they are asking for them. How can a MS69 FS be worth more that a MS70 coin? I am not playing their game. I refuse to pay for a gimmick. As others have said, one day in the near future, once all get educated on this scam, those prices are going to tumble like there is no tommorrow.  I feel sorry for those paying these hugely inflated prices for a term that don't mean squat IMHO. PS, ain't it interesting now when you check census at NGC's site that they have now graded FS FOR ALL the years---yea right---
Edited by CiScO 09/24/2006 4:58 pm
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Replies: 16 / Views: 2,552 |