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So, TPG's Are Calling These "Impproperly Annealed"

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fioti's Avatar
United States
4212 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2011  1:10 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add fioti to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
The term "sintered", "copper washed" and a host of others have gone the wayside, apparently. These have to be candidates for some desighnation. I have found just 4, dozens of boxes apart. The two I dont show I put away somewhere safe. (HA!) It's unconceivable to me that the same paint tint was used on these months apart. One thread elsewhere talks of someone having some fancy x-ray macine doing diagnostics on these types. Results showed 83% copper on the surface, and they were much liter than these. Before I give the folks at PCGS a good laugh, would anyone be interested in having these mailed to them, in order to make a determination? BTW, the edges are the same solid color.


So,-TPG's-Are-Calling-These-


So,-TPG's-Are-Calling-These-

So,-TPG's-Are-Calling-These-

So,-TPG's-Are-Calling-These-
Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2011  01:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With the general condition of these, I don't think these are anything more than PMD. If they were unc coins, then maybe they could be some sort of error.

BTW, annealing is a heating of the blanks to soften them for striking. I'm guessing overheating would cause discoloration, like the blue tinge you'll see if you sharpen a blade too quickly on a grinding wheel.
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DylansDad's Avatar
United States
476 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2011  3:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DylansDad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd agree. These look like they've been buried for a time, or subjected to some other sort of post mint damage. Do a search here for "Black Beauty" and you'll find some pictures of some.
Pillar of the Community
United States
601 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2011  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add liveandievarieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think we're confusing terms and coins here folks-

A "stintered" or improperly annealed coin is caused by being overcooked in the annealing bin. Before the coins are struck- they are heated to make them softer and more malleable between the dies. This increases die life. If a coin gets stuck in the bin for too long, it is overheated and fine particles of metal adhere to it. The result is a coin that ranges from dark grey to black while still being fully lustrous. These were called "Black Beauties" in the 1950s when they were first noticed on nickels. Recently, in the last several years, Fred Weinberg has promoted them and I believe that is what let to the TPGs attributing them (he has great sway with the TPGs). That being said, the coin above is not.

What it looks like is pictured above- is a coin with a ribbon of copper rolled into the planchet strip before it was punched. Yes- this is probably more often a post-mint alteration. But they do occur, I have one I came across last week. I scratched it very deeply (don't do this) because I was certain it was just a thin plating. I was wrong- the copper goes deep into the planchet. I don't have enough time to explain the difference between alloy impurities and a coin struck through copper debris, but I hope I was helpful on the subject of "stintered" coins.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2011  6:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sintering errors have largely been debunked and the term is not interchangeable with improperly annealed planchet. Sintering involves a high temperature powder coating of metal dust fusing to the planchet. Improperly annealed coins have been attributed to a migration of metal atoms in an alloy due to the high heat, a thin layer of pure copper forms on the surface. Attribution is virtually impossible on a circulated coin, the presence of luster is critical to rule out manipulation. The pictured coins all appear to be suffering from various degrees of environmental damage and not improper annealing.
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