How Many TPG Companies Are There?

Fred's comments in green.

quote:

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Originally posted by Metalman

Hi Dave

Interesting take and well said,, now for the second part of my advocacy !!


If I was to put my Lincolns or My merc's in Coin World slabs, with my grades ,, and then decide to sell some or all of them ,, would this make me a fraud ?

Would depend upon what grade you placed on them. If you were honest like I know you are, you would give a reasonably accurate grade, but if you were to label an AU-50 Linc as MS-65, then that would be another story.

Just because I'm to close to the source ?

Isn't it really because they call themselves a grading company ? and not because they choose to grade there own coins ?

If SGS were to change the way that they do business and use their own name, and not imply that they are a grading company ,, with grading credentials would they be viewed differently? or would the same judgement be made ? that they are decietful and a fraud ?

If SGS were to clearly state that it was indeed aboncom and that he is grading his own coins, then opinions would change. In fact, there have been sellers which offer graded coins in Coin World slabs, have provided a grade, and have clearly stated that the grade is their own opinion. However, most boiler room slabbers simply do not do this and represent their own slabbed coins as from independent third party graders. It's all in the intent of what they do and misrepresentation constitutes fraud.

If not then any grading company which over or under grades a coin,, Irregardless of distance should be held accountable in the same way especially the Big Boys !!! any company that regrades a coin and the grade changes should in fact be held accountable,, (the coin was either worth more or worth less than the original slab indicated) which If I get the jest of this ,,is the problem with SGS coins they are not of the grade stated and thus the value is not correct?

I see no difference in the two !!!

Rick

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It's a question of degree and the legal distinctions between "reasonable" human error and intent to defraud. The Big Boys (TO WIT: PCGS, ANACS, NGC) make every effort to be as accurate as possible and back their estimates with money back guarantees. "Reasonable" human error makes allowances for one or two grades differences of opinion, but intent to defraud as in the instance of SGS is evidenced with a difference of three to five grades (always above standards, never below) and misrepresentation by aboncom by stating that Star Grading Service graded his coins rather than himself when it has been well-established they are one and the same.

A good example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1882-S-SGS-GRAD...AR_W0QQitemZ300032886708

Does any knowledgeable Morgan collector really think this 82S Morgan is really MS-67 worth $1250 as opposed to the $70 it is more likely worth in MS-64?

Even the US Mint uses the ANA standards for grading coins http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_min...tion=Grading . Here's an abbreviated definition from the Mint's site:

Choice Uncirculated (MS-65). An above average Uncirculated coin which may be brilliant or lightly toned and has very few contact marks [bold added for emphasis] on the surface or rim. MS-67 through MS-62 indicate slightly higher or lower grades of preservation.

And PCGS's grading standards for MS-67: MS/PR-67 Virtually as struck with minor imperfections, very well struck .

Even with the relatively poor quality of aboncom's image, it is clear that this 1882S Morgan is not particularly well struck as is found in a typical 82S Morgan. And there's several blemishes which would keep its grade down to around MS-64. Yet aboncom states, "This coin has a market value of $1,000 to $1,400 in MS67". This constitutes misrepresentation, i.e. fraud.

quote:

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Originally posted by Five4fighting

Wow 83 of them? I knew there was a whole bunch but not that many. I'll stick with the top 4, PCGS, ANACS, NGC and ICQ

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Last count I saw on another forum was more then 100

Below are links to some interesting articles ABOUT TPG

http://cmi-gold-silver.com/PCGS-NGC...ervices.html
http://cmi-gold-silver.com/gold-con...on-1933.html

Link below has a list of some TPGs
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art38730.asp

http://www.camacs.com/coin_grading_...es.html#ICCS

http://www.gem70.com/

Anyone bought any coins from this site below?
http://www.seizedpropertyauctions.c...nocache=true

Conder101 writes the book on these....literally. This is a cut and paste of one of his posts....

This is the list of companies so far (And I'm sure there are some that aren't on here).

A-Mark
ACC
ACCGS
ACCS
Accugrade
ACGS (American)
ACGS (Australian)
AGA
AGI
AGS (Advanced)
AGS (American)
ANAAB
ANACS
ANICS
ANL
ARC
ASA
BLANCHARD
CCGC
CCGS
CCGS
CCGS
CCI
CGA
CGA
CGC
CGCGS
COINLAND
COMPUGRADE
CRC
CSA
CSGS
CTGS
DCGS (Digital)
DCGS (Distinctive)
EAC
FCS
FSC
FSG
FTGS
GCS
GEM
GLGS
GSA
HALLMARK
HOLT
ICCS
ICG
ICGS
ICI
ICS
IGA
IGS
INC
INGS
INL
INS
IRI
JNDA
LCG
MCCS
MCGC
MEGS
MM
MonExpert
MTB
NCCA
NCG
NCG
NCI
NCS
NECA
NES
NFC
NGC
NGCS
NGS
NGS
NIC
NLG
NNC
NNCS
NSCGS
NTC
Numex
NWCG
Paramount
PCC
PCG
PCGA
PCGA
PCGS
PCI
PCS
PGS
Photo Seal
PNG
PNGL
PPGS
RCGS
RMGS
S&G
SAGCE
SDGS
SEGS
SGS
Silvertowne
TCGS
TCTS
TMM
TruGrade
Tulving
Unknown
USGCO
USGCS
USGS
USNS
USRCCT
USTI
VSS
WCCS
WCG
WCGS
Webcoinage
WMP
WWCG

125 companies 3/3/05


-------------------------
slab collector and researcher
reported as of 02/11/05
119 companies
322 production varieties


As you can see, this list is almost 2 years old.

I have got it. Me selling 1990s coins in slabs, let make that shorter by putting MS-90 on the slab. I know MS stands for me selling,an the 90 the year of the coins.WOW what would the first MS-90 sell for. LOL!!! Start the bid at 1,000,000.00 your pick penny,nickle,dime or etc! JUST A JOKE BIRD OUT

Biokemist6 yes it was a MS-70,same story see alot of TPG grading coins MS68,MS69 that could not make AU.Coins with wear are not MINT STATE. Have seen coins grade MS were all the feathers are worn off the Eagles breast?by these TPG.

MC, thanks for the links. While I have a general mistrust of any new coin grading company, at least ICS looks like they might have promise in terms of legitimacy. ICS gave out names of its graders, something most alphabet companies won't do. It remains to be seen how well these two companies will do - when we start seeing their slabs on ebay (may already be there), then we can start passing judgement. Also, it needs to be determined if the companies sell their own slabbed coins, something which requires a little detective work. If they do sell their own slabs, it may be considered a conflict of interest and they then can be discarded as serious entries into the grading game.

I am very happy to help out any legal endeavors which will put a crimp in coin fraud operations. Thanks for the links!

Virtually all of them have no more value than the plastic into which they put the coins. There oughtta be a law against them, but there isn't although if they enter the grading field to defraud buyers, it then becomes illegal.