How Many TPG Companies Are There?

Snowman, I get an Error 404 (server not found). I tried a couple permutations of the address and still came up with the same thing.

This would be a tremendous resource if we can get the link to work.

Fred

Evidently a glitchy server. It came up fine this go-around.

They're missing several of which I am aware, e.g., CCGS, PGS (3 of them). I'll have to go back through the TPG topics and send him/her a list.

Nevertheless, this was an awesome project to come up with so many. And, there's a lot more in total than I had guesstimated in another topic.

Fred

Great link! I am also surprised at the size of the list. Mike

It's finally dawned on me that not just a few of these unrated one-person basement "grading companies" were (and still are) established merely to sell one's personal collection. Good example is ANC as discussed in the thread https://goccf.com/t/8444 .

To set up one of these "companies" solely for this purpose and to attempt to sell them under the guise of the certification process, especially after checking the "certified" box on ebay is deceitful and constitutes fraud. Any attempt at misrepresentation for monetary purposes is fraud. Unfortunately, about all that can be done unless the fraudster gets into really big bucks is to report such auctions to ebay and maybe, just maybe ebay will pull the auction(s).

Fred

quote:

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Originally posted by Metalman


Im going to play the devils advocate for a bit !!

If coin grading is subjective,, which I think everyone agrees that it is, and the grade can vary from one grader to the next, and one top tier company to the next,,

Then why is it decietful and fraudulent for another person not associated with a top TPG (who are often wrong,, and will change the grade of a coin by multiple submissions and do not follow any given system nor standard) given a free ride with their services ? and the private individual is made to be criminal in their actions of grading their own coins ?

Rick

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I'll bite. The TPG system is based on the concept that the grader has no financial interest in the actual grade of the coin, but only that he was paid to grade it. You cannot expect a TPG to do business for free, but you can expect them to take steps to mask the origin, owner, and ultimate destination of the coins they grade.

Regardless of anything else, and with a couple notable exceptions, I think the "major" TPG's still accomplish this mission of distancing themselves from the resale process.

The alphabet slabbers, on the other hand, know exactly where their coins come from, and have a direct financial interest in the grade being as high as possible, because the slabber is the one receiving the profit from the resale of the slabbed coin.

It's a disgusting travesty of the TPG process. The difference is as clear as night and day to me.

I'll also bite and add to Dave's comments although I know Rick and I will never completely agree on this topic .

Grading is only RELATIVELY subjective. The grading standards are generally well-established by the ANA, Photograde, and the established grading companies themselves such that while there might be small differences between one top TPG and the next and even in-house, they are in general agreement with each other within one or two grades of a coin's specific grade. Where the unrated and unregulated boiler room and fraudulent grading companies cross the line is at that point where they differ from the established standards by three, five, and even up to eleven grades (that I've found) from the established norm. Further, subjectivity is far too often completely discarded when the basement grader slabs cleaned and/or damaged coins and label them as Mint State or something else they clearly are not.

Fred

I have a pretty unobtrusive name; Fred calls me anything but Dave.

The key here is disconnect. Rick, if you put your coin in a Coin World slab and call it MS64, you are not to be faulted. If you do the same thing, and then put a company label on it without identifying yourself as the owner of the company, you have crossed the line.

Yes, it's because they call themselves a grading company.

Grading is subjective. We all know that, even the newbies know that, and the same person may not call a given coin the same thing twice in succession. Indeed, until somebody comes up with venture capital for my computerized grading business model, that's a hazard we're all going to have to live with. As long as one can reasonably assume that there is a disconnect between the grader and the sale of the coin, subjective grading can be coped with. As has been said, a two-grade swing between ANACS, NGC and PCGS on the same coin is newsworthy.

Value is another thing entirely. A 2x difference between MS65 and MS66 exists only because we, the buyers, say it does. The TPG has no say in the retail price of a coin. In most cases, big differences in grade pricing is due to conditional rarity, which of course the TPG's can affect with their grading. However, at that level, I am perfectly comfortable in stating that if you can't tell the difference between MS66 and MS67, you shouldn't be on the playing field. In no area of interest should one believe that rookies can ably function at the elite levels - it's counterintuitive.

The activity of at least one alphabet slabber has reached the level of fraud covered by case law, and this slabber should now be within reach of the US Attorney covering the relevant area. It only remains for the problem to become big enough on their radar to warrant action.

I'm working on that.

quote:

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Originally posted by Metalman

Hi Dave

Trust me I have no stake with SGS and would just as soon see them dismantled,, But the individual who slabs and sells His coins without the guise of being a grading company should not be included in the ranks of the basement,garage, and deceitful,Fraudulent slabbers who are determined to make themselves appear to be real certification companies.

take care !!

Rick

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We're quite in agreement. The telling difference is in the representation of yourself as a grading company, in an environment where folks are being led to believe that grading companies are impartial.