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Ghengis Khan - Billon Dirhem

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United States
82 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2011  4:57 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add christopher walton to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've started examining another of the albums of my dad's collection(s) and would like to get some feedback on this one - for starters. How in the world does one grade, let alone put a value on something like this since there aren't a lot of references of pieces sold?

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this but nothing else seemed to fit.



Ghengis-Khan---Billon-Dirhem


Ghengis-Khan---Billon-Dirhem
Valued Member
United States
451 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2011  6:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add brokencompass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMHO, I would grade this as a VG
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16868 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2011  7:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The identity seems fine, though your pics are upside down. These billon coins are usually called "jitals" rather than "dirhams". The script on this coin is an early form of Arabic. See this zeno.ru page for a bunch of similar coins.

With ancient and mediaeval coins, it can sometimes be hard to tell the difference between wear, corrosion and weakness or defective strike. I personally tend to lump it all in together when I grade an ancient or mediaeval coin, since the effect is similar and the net results as far as effect on desirability and price is similar.

VG would be a fair call for this coin, I think. Perhaps down to G; it depends on whether the strange pitting effect visible in the pics is actually on the coin or rather, as I suspect, an artefact of the scanner.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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United States
82 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2011  11:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add christopher walton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
brokencompass - Thank you.

Sap - I think the strange appearance is due to using too high a resolution on the camera. Sometimes I get caught up thinking that the higher the better the photo.

I hope you will be around often. Until a couple of days ago I knew that my dad had a collection of 'ancients' (7th C. BC to 4th C. AD), but I thought it was only about 50-75 pieces. It turns out that there are 4 albums with more than 100 per album. They have descriptions and often weights, but none of them have any type of grading. This coin came out of a 5th album of 'European Rulers'.
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Bacchus2's Avatar
United Kingdom
2893 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2011  01:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wouldn'g get too hung up on grading ancients. The sticking of a grading label on coins was useful when coins were sold via dealers lists and pictures wern't available. Now with digital photography available to nearly all hardly any coin is traded without a picture.

Grading is very difficult with ancients - your jital is not strictly an ancient though as it's hammered the same qualifiers apply. As Sap says, how do you differentiate between a poor striks, wear, and a worn die with a simple VG or F. The answer is of course you can's so grading these coins is a best guess or rough estimate.

This is a case of the picture being worth a thousand words and if you have the picture, a couple of letters indicating grade doesn't add anything. There aren't Krause values you can look up either so it's a pointless exercise there too.

I have a lot of hammered - well into 4 figures - and I haven't graded a single one of them, because there really is no point.

Have fun with your new collection.
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 Posted 03/11/2011  01:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add christopher walton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bacchus2 - Thank you for your thoughts. I had rather come to that conclusion - that grading was academic.

I wish I had the inclination to continue the collection my father started. The history of the coins is fascinating - such as this one may have been produced in a city that Khan 'captured' because the people had attacked a caravan under his protection. However, my forte is Oriental antiques such as Japanese potteries and porcelains (tea bowls in particular). Though, as executrix of the estate, it is my responsibility to see that they are properly handled so I still get to play with them - a lot.

For future reference, is there more of an appropriate forum for something like these? I almost put it in 'World Coins' but everything seemed relative 'new' in comparison. There are others on which I will need opinions and input.
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Australia
16868 Posts
 Posted 03/11/2011  03:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
For future reference, is there more of an appropriate forum for something like these? I almost put it in 'World Coins' but everything seemed relative 'new' in comparison. There are others on which I will need opinions and input.

I personally consider the "ancient" era to end in 500 AD. Technically coins like this would belong in a "Mediaeval and Islamic" section but this forum doesn't have one of those - there isn't enough interest in such coins to warrant it. I generally put them in "World coins" when I move them from elsewhere, such as "ID Required", though if people post them here in the "Ancients" section, I don't move them.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 03/11/2011  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add christopher walton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sap - Thank you, very much. This really didn't seem the right place for this coin, but it felt more appropriate than any other. It is good to have the date guideline - though I'm sure it is posted somewhere and I missed it. Your patience is appreciated.
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