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Silver & Gold As Legal Tender

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Pillar of the Community

United States
1026 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2011  10:52 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Brucec to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Just read an article in Coin World news that the state of Utah passed a law making Silver and Gold legal tender in there state.

Similar laws are being considered in other state.

I also just emailed my state representatives in PA asking them to enact such a law into our state.

Sure would be good to see our government once again go back to such a standard.
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vinnycoin's Avatar
Canada
442 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2011  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vinnycoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a link to the article: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...egal-tender/

Very interesting if you ask me. I'd have to wonder at what price point would they take the gold/silver? at spot? slightly under?
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2011  3:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
here is th bill that passed waiting to be signed http://le.utah.gov/~2011/bills/hbil...b0317s01.htm and it says they would be accepted for their precious metal value not face value. it says a 1964 half could buy 4-5 gallons of gas
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
3670 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2011  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seems like I recall reading about a foreign currency that changes with the price flux of gold, via the gold coins. Does that sound right?

That makes sense to me, instead of stamping 25 dollars on a pure gold coin an expecting it to always be worth that amount or the amount it may have been worth when coin was minted....

As far as the idea itself, seems like no brain-er to me. Gold an silver has worked for countless eons as many different country's circulated currency right, so why would it not work again?
Edited by Silverhawk74
03/15/2011 3:07 pm
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Darth Anarchus's Avatar
United States
1388 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2011  3:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Darth Anarchus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
wouldn't that cause a double-standard and depreciate our current monetary system?
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16830 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2011  9:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...it says they would be accepted for their precious metal value not face value...

The article says that, but I don't see anywhere in the legislation itself which Bryan linked to that says that.

Ity seems to me that they can't simply say "silver and gold coins will be legal tender for their bullion value". They'd have to specify exactly what that "bullion value" will be. Which will make the system unworkable in practice as the bullion value changes so often. The whole point of "legal tender" is giving things a fixed, government-certified value that people don't need to haggle over.

Quote:
Gold an silver has worked for countless eons as many different country's circulated currency right, so why would it not work again?

Three reasons I can think of.

1. Because there simply isn't enough of the stuff to go around anymore; since about 1940 the world population has grown faster than the rate of precious metal mining. You'd need to suddenly find lots more gold and silver to mine, and/or eliminate the "surplus population", to re-monetize precious metals to the same degree you saw pre-1940.

2. Because gold and silver are simply too bulky and heavy to shuffle around in large transactions. Back when coins were invented 2700 years ago, coins were a far more efficient means of payment than sheep, cows, iron bars and the other things that people used to use for "money". We've invented far more convenient forms of money since then; coins are seen by most people today as cumbersome and unwieldy. Why do you think there's such a furore over replacing the $1 note with a $1 coin?

3. Because governments can't control it. The problem with using rocks for money is that monetary policy would be primarily determined by how fast the miners can dig the stuff out of the ground. When a country with precious metal coinage has an economy that goes downhill, precious metal coins disappear, which means nobody has any money at all. And making circulating coinage out of precious metals will not prevent an economy from collapsing - Mexico proved that when they tried it in the early 1990s. For governments to control money properly, it has to be worthless for any other purpose other than as money.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Silverhawk74's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 03/15/2011  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silverhawk74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey thanks SAP, that all makes much sense. Nice detailed answer, and like you said cumbersome is coins via currency, but that is a small set back I think we all could adapt back to....

The 6 an 1 half billion on the other hand would be the real problem, via like you said just to many people of the planet post 1940, than there is gold and silver mined each year perhaps, in order to have enough in circulation to cover everyone....

And of course the big kicker, Governments can't control it....

Never the less, I did post an article not long ago about a South Carolina politician pushing gold an silver coins as currency in South Carolina about a month back from yahoo, and now this article tells me it must be made possible some how must it? That is individual State's going to individual currency, via gold an silver based....

Seems like we could find an example of where Southern states in 1861 did something along similar lines one would think in the civil war. But instead of any states which dropped from the Union, I imagine all took on the Confederate currency, instead of its individual state currency, does that sound at all right?
Edited by Silverhawk74
03/15/2011 10:25 pm
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16830 Posts
 Posted 03/16/2011  08:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Seems like we could find an example of where Southern states in 1861 did something along similar lines one would think in the civil war. But instead of any states which dropped from the Union, I imagine all took on the Confederate currency, instead of its individual state currency, does that sound at all right?

The main hindrance to states issuing their own currency was and still is the Union Constitution, which explicitly prohibits them from doing so. In the Civil War period, once a state seceded from the Union, it no longer had to abide by the Union Constitution. They would have been free to issue coins and notes of their own, or to join another federation (the Confederacy) and use money issued by that nation.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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madlou22's Avatar
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 Posted 03/16/2011  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add madlou22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That would be so cool... Go into a store to buy some grocies right? No problem! Just give a fraction of your gold coin to the cashier and you're good to go.
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 03/16/2011  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Brucec to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well Montana, New Hampshire, Georgia, South Carolina, Utah and Tennessee all have laws pending to bring the gold and silver standard back to their states.

Some differ think it is New Hampshire law even has previsions for banks to except it at face value and also be able to sell it.

Very interesting I think, to put it simple those that have it can use it.

I love the idea and think our country should go back to the gold standard that Richard Nixon took away in 1971 because he could not balance out budget with funding the Vietnam War I was in.

Bring it back then our government can't just keep printing our country away note by note.
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biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 03/17/2011  09:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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wouldn't that cause a double-standard and depreciate our current monetary system?


Absolutely, which is why the feds will fight it. Gresham's Law says bad money drives out the good. Given the choice between a lump of gold and a piece of paper, you keep the gold and pass the paper to the next sucker.
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biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 03/17/2011  09:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Which will make the system unworkable in practice as the bullion value changes so often. The whole point of "legal tender" is giving things a fixed, government-certified value that people don't need to haggle over.


Exactly what Krands do. I think they use London 2nd fix as face value.
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Ozzie's Avatar
Cyprus
349 Posts
 Posted 03/17/2011  10:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ozzie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
remember that political agendas will have a lot to do with this.
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biggfredd's Avatar
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9104 Posts
 Posted 03/17/2011  12:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Why do you think there's such a furore over replacing the $1 note with a $1 coin?


Ignorance, mainly.

$1 million in paper $1 takes up almost exactly the same space as $1 million brass bucks. The metal is eight times heavier.

Three brass bucks weigh about the same as four quarters, and quarters are heavily used.

Paper $1 last 6-18 months, brass bucks at least 30 years.
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biggfredd's Avatar
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 Posted 03/17/2011  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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But instead of any states which dropped from the Union, I imagine all took on the Confederate currency, instead of its individual state currency, does that sound at all right?


They took it, but at a tiny fraction of face, compared to full value for gold and silver and even copper coins.
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biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 03/17/2011  1:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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I love the idea and think our country should go back to the gold standard that Richard Nixon took away in 1971 because he could not balance out budget with funding the Vietnam War I was in.


Nixon made it legal for us to own gold in any form, and also released the GSA Morgans.

We went off the gold standard in 1933 or 34. Only other countries could buy gold from us.
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