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 Replies: 72 / Views: 6,970 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1547 Posts |
*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***I'll just tell you how I'm accustomed to doing it. Strictly-speaking, if it's from the hub, as intended, and different, it's a variety. Everything else is an error. Examples: the 1864 IHC with pointed bust and "L" is a variety; the 1955 DDO LWC is an error. Now, is it more complicated than that? How do you do it? Thanks.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote:Examples: the 1864 IHC with pointed bust and "L" is a variety; the 1955 DDO LWC is an error. But if the Mint made the 1955 DDO on purpose, is it then an error? And if the Mint constantly makes coins like that, are they all errors or on purposes?  And too what if that "L" on the Indian cent was put there by accident. Would that now be a variety error?  Just kidding of course. I really could care less if a variety or error. If there is a space for it in my Albums, I fill it and never think of tagging it either way. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1547 Posts |
Carl, who asked you? In the interest of getting the terminology right, let's just call it; it's one of those, you know, semantic things.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
As I understand it,an error is produced as a single example,usually by the minting process. So,struck throughs,capped dies,mis-aligned dies,double struck,off-center strikes and other such phenomena are errors. Any error on a die will produce many examples that are identical so they would be a variety. So,doubled dies,WAMs,design variations would all be considered varieties. That said,I am not sure about die cracks and Cuds because they evolve over time but I would still consider them varieties. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1388 Posts |
Die Cracks and Cuds would be errors because they happen when a die starts breaking down in a non-uniform fashion. At least that's the way I understand it, although I could be wrong... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1547 Posts |
Hockingzig, you're differentiating on the basis of whether it's repeatable or not. If it's repeatable, you're saying you're inclined to call it a variety; if it's not repeatable, you're saying you're inclined to call it an error. Am I summarizing you right?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4000 Posts |
There are errors, varieties and die varieties. Errors are "one time" events that are basically specific to that coin. Struck-throughs, off-centers, misaligned dies, planchet abnormailities and the like are errors. Even though you may have two off-center coins of the same year and denomination that look alike, if you look at them under magnification, you will find differences in them. Technically, every error is unique. Varieties are planned design changes like large and small date cents. Wide rim 1979-P Susan B. Anthony dollars are varieties, for example. Die Varieties are on the die. Doubled dies and RPM's are die varieties. They are not "one time" events. Every microscopic detail of that die is minted on every single coin that the die strikes. Hope that helps. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1388 Posts |
Thanks for clarifying Scoob  , I was starting to get a little scatter-brained for a minute  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
601 Posts |
Aw Geez, where's Coppercoins when you need him? I'll take a stab at this-
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Pillar of the Community
United States
601 Posts |
It doesn't matter whether it was intentional or not- if the anomaly is ON the die, it's a Die Variety. This includes Doubled Dies, RPMs, Transitional Designs like the WAMs, counterclashes, Die Trails, repunched dates, re-engraved die details and ANYTHING else ON the die. Even if is't a gouge, or scratch or clash- if it's ON the die, it's a Variety. Basically- if it's on the die, it's produced in duplicate. That's not to say that every variety is collectible- die chips, scratches and minor clashes are normal occurrences in the minting process, they're common and don't command a premium. What we're all in search for are the valuable types of die varieties. As for errors, there are many different types- but none of these come from the die- An incomplete planchet (clip) is a planchet error A double struck cent is a striking error. A quarter struck on a cent is certainly an error.... But none of these errors have anything to do with a variation or anomaly ON the Die. Even Cuds are "varieties" by the strictest of definitions, as the die is broken and produces a like coin from each subsequent strike. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1547 Posts |
Hey Scooby Due and Liveandievarieties, real good, thanks. So, technically-speaking, a polished die is also a variety (...hence, the 1922-D "Weak D" and "No D" LWCs, that's how one would classify those).
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Pillar of the Community
United States
601 Posts |
YES- the '22 Plain, 3-Legged buffalo are both "varieties", albeit a DUMB VARIETY. Lol!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1547 Posts |
Hey, 'know whatcha mean. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4000 Posts |
Quote:
DUMB VARIETY  However, if you could afford $30-40,000 or so to put an MS63 example in your album, I wonder if it would change your view? I would like to think that my view wouldn't change if I had that kind of petty cash laying around, but who knows unless you're there? Hopefully, I would still prefer to use that money as a down payment on a '69-S DDO and call the '22 plain, well, just plain dumb. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
601 Posts |
NOT ONE BIT- my view would be the same. No different when I cherrypick a '36-D 3 1/2 legged Buffalo, I'll take the 2 grand all day long. I don't include a '22 Plain in my BU Wheat set either- not because of price- there are plenty of dates that beat it's value. THE MINT NEVER MADE A '22 PLAIN, they just wiped off a D. I can't respect a variety that is a result of what amounts to overzealous cleaning.....2 feathers buffalos, naw. Anyone see the "flating roof" memorials offered? Same thing. It's all a matter of polishing a die. EVERY die gets polished in it's life. I just don't dig it.
I'm not at all knocking anyone's preference, I just know what I personally prefer in the world of die varieties. I'll take a doubled die over a missing nose hair any day!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Copied from a post before: Errors are just a one for a few time happenings. Wrong planchet, incomplete planchet, lamination/delamination/peel, brockage, indent, Cuds, double struck, flip over strike, struck through errors, mirror brockage, struck through capped die, die cap (not the same), broadstruck centered/off center, wrong stock. Errors can happen on any denomination at any time and are usually striking errors. Varieties are made on the die not a striking error. RPM, doubled die, over dates, over mint marks. Die deteriation, die abrasion, polishings/clashes/scratches/die dots/cracks/chips/breaks, missing devices (also over polishing of dies) are just part of the die wear processes that really have not extra value until they become extreme. |
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Replies: 72 / Views: 6,970 |
Posted 03/21/2011 10:18 am
