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1990 Penny Die Scratch?

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semvhu's Avatar
United States
28 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2006  2:10 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add semvhu to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Here's another potential winner on my hands. Maybe. This one appears to have been made with a die that had some sort of scratch or indention on the back across the "ONE". I made sure this time that the section in question is indeed a raised section, not a scratch on the penny. What do you guys think? Worth anything? Worth my time to keep?

1990-Penny-Die-Scratch?

1990-Penny-Die-Scratch?
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laxmaster92's Avatar
United States
1154 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2006  3:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add laxmaster92 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a die crack. Nice Find!
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semvhu's Avatar
United States
28 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2006  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add semvhu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sweet! I hope you're right! :) Now then, how do I find out how much such a thing is worth?
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2006  4:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is either a die crack or a die gouge (scratch). I am leaning toward a die gouge based on your pic. Looking at the magnified pic- at the right end of the large line, up and slightly to the right, it looks like another smaller faint gouge. As far as value goes, probably not much as the only die gouges that seem to carry a real premium are the ones in interesting places, i.e. Speared Buffalo nickel or Wisconsin Extra Leaf quarters.
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semvhu's Avatar
United States
28 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2006  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add semvhu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Roger that, thanks for the info. So are any modern error coins worth even looking at? One 1988 Cud penny I found, someone on here commented that it would be worth 25 bucks or more, so I guess the occasional one is worth it. Unless it's for the novelty, it seems that even the ones with legitimate errors aren't worth much time and effort. Am I missing something with that assessment?
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2006  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, IMO, what matters first is- "Is it a real error"? In your case, yes, a die gouge or a Cud would be considered real errors. Die gouges aren't worth much because many of them can be made. A Cud will be worth more since when a Cud occurs, the die face and shank have noticeably damage and they are usually taken out of service soon after. A die with a Cud will make alot less coins than a die with just a scratch or small gouge will.

Second question would be- "What are you gaining by looking through your change and rolls for modern errors"?
You gain the knowledge of what a real error looks like and the ability to distinguish a real error from post-mint damage, Machine Doubling, or other types of alteration. This can be an important skill to have when you are looking for something that potentially could be worth big money.

Third question would be- "What is the error worth to you"?
This is something you have to ask yourself. Some people scoff at the notion of putting something like a minor die gouge cent in their collection.
Personally, I have a 1981 cent with a die chip that caused the top part of the "8" in the date to be filled. I purchased it out of a dealer's bargain bin for 10 cents in 1983 when I was eight years old. I would never consider parting with it since it was the first error-type coin I purchased even though it isn't worth much at all. I still set aside minor error coins such as that one. Through years of looking, I have gained alot of knowledge and I still check my change all the time. Just because the errors you find might not be worth much, they still serve their purpose.

Just remember, continually looking through change for errors might allow you to be the discoverer the next major State Quarter error
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semvhu's Avatar
United States
28 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2006  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add semvhu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bio, all good points. I already have learned a lot about what errors to look for and what errors to ignore because of how common they are. For instance, when I first started looking through coins, I noticed some pennies that had very thin lettering, especially in "STATES" on the top of the back. At first I thought I was onto something, then I noticed just how many I was finding (such as the random penny I just pulled out of my pocket has this feature) and decided they were probably too common. Scouring the forums here confirmed my notion. I've stopped thinking everything minor I found was real and have learned enough to know when to throw a coin back into my pocket and when to scan it for further review here. Not that I'm perfect, mind you, especially since there are still many new posts that come up on this site that I learn from.

As for what it's worth to me, if it's a genuine error and not worth the time and effort to sell, I'll probably put it back in a small collection. Maybe I'll stumble across one someday that will be worth a lot of money, maybe I won't. But in the end, it's an interesting small hobby that is actually kind of fun. Looking at coins under one of the microscopes here at work [after hours, definitely] gives me 15 minutes of taking my mind off of all the other stuff going on in my life right now, so that's a small bonus I'll not turn away any time soon.

I did find a few coin dealers in the local phone book. Maybe I'll give some of them a call sometime and see if any of them deal in error coins.
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2006  6:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Guys

This is not a Die gouge !!!! it is trapped air under the clad layer,,you can check it by pressing on it lightly with the end of a tooth pick.

Sorry but these are not considered errors and are a very common occurance on the Lincoln Cent.

Rick
Edited by Metalman
10/03/2006 6:19 pm
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semvhu's Avatar
United States
28 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2006  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add semvhu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I saw another thread with a similar penny and was wondering about this. Does anyone else agree with Metal's statement? Like anyone would disagree with a moderator. ;) What features do you look for to determine if it's trapped air? Is it because of the smoothness of the metal? Would a die gouge be more coarse in its shape?
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 10/04/2006  12:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
semvhu - Unfortunately I agree with metalman 100%. The test is to press the surface gently and see if the deformation goes away. These trapped pockets are very common on zinc cents coated with copper. Zinc is a highly reactive metal and a scratch (even a tiny one) can cause the surface below the copper to corrode.
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 10/04/2006  01:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
semvhu

I would hope that no one would feel that they could not disagree with me just because Iam a Mod !!! I learn daily from you folks on the forum.Lincoln cents just happen to be a coin that I look at several tens of thousands of through out a years time, and have for the last decade or so .

The smoothness is one characteristic of trapped air under the clad layer,,this one also has a wide narrow wide appearance which is also characteristic,, where a die scratch or gouge are more often very uniform in shape and size and also very often V shaped not always but often.

Rick
Edited by Metalman
10/04/2006 01:29 am
New Member
United States
37 Posts
 Posted 10/04/2006  09:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wavysteps to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Metal man is 100 % correct, that raised line is a trapped gas bubble in between the zinc core and the copper outer layer. This does happen and once in awhile they are listed on a auction site as a "pimple" Lincoln or some other fancy name to hype a common occurrence.

As to searching; for the relative short time that I have been a numismatic person, my luck at finding oddities has been more than exceptional. Since 2004, I have had six discovery coins (5 DDR's and 1 Mintmark variation) make either Coin World and /or Numismatic News. This is something that I enjoy doing and the more that you do it, the more familiar you will be with the design elements of each coin. That will enable you to spot errors and varieties a lot easier.

As far as the money end of it, most coin shops are not specialized for selling or buying errors and varieties, unless it is very, very well known and even then, their price will be far less than you think.

My suggestion; search not for the money, but search for the enjoyment and the education of finding the oddities. The more information that you accumulate, the more knowledgeable you will be and the better off to sell what you have.

WAVYSTEPS2003 aka BJ Neff
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 10/04/2006  5:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add errorfinder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
just a quick 100% agreement here with metalman and waveysteps.I've just been into this variety/error field going on three years now.however, learning something new most days adds to not only the enjoyment of 'finds' example; verses; thinking "oh I've found the big one" just later to 'learn' Not so big, to; really next to nothing. that helps stop dissappoinments and therefore i'am not disscouraged as oft.'learning ' as waveysteps points out, gives YOU the knowledge to as the value of your 'finds' verses baseing your knowledge/info on/from dealers who to base values biased on their bussines side.anyways the gas verses other possibilities is given away by these 'signs 'rounded top and sides not continious (see between lower right leg of "N" ane the "E").also note irregular not real straight a gouge wuold be real straight and continious.though die cracks can be fairly staight the give away is that the top of the (gas bubble) is rounder than a crack would be this goes fo thr the side of the bublle VS a crach would be. hopefully this helps some. as all ways read:always Happy Hunting
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 10/04/2006  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add errorfinder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
just a quick 100% agreement here with metalman and waveysteps.I've just been into this variety/error field going on three years now.however, learning something new most days adds to not only the enjoyment of 'finds' example; verses; thinking "oh I've found the big one" just later to 'learn' Not so big, to; really next to nothing. that helps stop disappointments and therefore i'am not discouraged as oft.'learning ' as waveysteps points out, gives YOU the knowledge to as the value of your 'finds' verses basing your knowledge/info on/from dealers who to base values biased on their business side.anyways the gas verses other possibilities is given away by these 'signs 'rounded top and sides not continuous (see between lower right leg of "N" ane the "E").also note irregular not real straight; a 'real'gouge would be real straight and continuous die cracks can be fairly straight the give away is that the top of the (gas bubble) is rounder than a crack would be this goes fo thr the sides of the bubble VS a crack would be. hopefully this helps some. as all ways read:always Happy Hunting P.S.concerning die gouges I'm aware of the curved wisconsin gouges however there is much debate over [deliberate "man made"]verses unintentional.? do you know of any other curved die gouges ?
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