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 Replies: 31 / Views: 4,330 |
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New Member
United States
8 Posts |
New at this, so please bear with me. I recently purchased several Morgan dollars (1921 -P). I noticed on two of the coins, when I flip the coin to look at the eagle, the eagle faces up towards the "head" of the face side. All others, the eagle faces towards the "neck" of the face side. In other words it looks like the eagle has been flipped 180 degrees. Very confused. Any thoughts are appreciated. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6383 Posts |
Sounds like what are called rotated die errors. Please post pictures of the coins. If you put them in 2X2 cardboard holders and use staples to close just the 3 open sides then we can see how the eagle is "flipped" when you post pictures of both sides of the holders. FYI, genuine Morgan dollar rotated die coins should be pretty valuable. It is possible someone manufactured these coins by machining two common 1921 coins into a shell and plug, then fitting them together. This is commonly done with Kennedy halves so maybe someone is trying it with Morgans. If your coins are fabrications there should be a visible seam where two half-coins were joined together and the weight should be off. A non-altered Morgan dollar should weigh very close to 26.7 grams. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2130 Posts |
 to CCF!  |
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
John1  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
For awhile the Chinese fakes were also known for having the reverses rotated 180 degrees.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
I would be very, very leery of any Morgan dollar whose reverse was rotated a full 180 degrees. Although technically possible, I've never seen a genuine one. Small rotations up to maybe 30 degrees are known, but anything greater than that is an immediate red flag. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2448 Posts |
I'd like to see it too! Great addition to a counterfeit collection. |
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Pillar of the Community
Egypt
3470 Posts |
to CC forum  I think it will be a valuable find if they were genuine and there are many helpful experts here whom will be happy to help you if you posted some pics of the coins. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I know its hard to take a picture of a rotated die but if possible use a mirror and take a picture of the Obverse with the Reverse showing in the mirror. Then take just a straight on shot of the Obverse and Reverse separately so we may be able to see if its genuine or not
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1510 Posts |
try a magnet on them!
Retired USAF 1983-2003
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1547 Posts |
Quote:New at this, so please bear with me. I recently purchased several Morgan dollars (1921 -P). I noticed on two of the coins, when I flip the coin to look at the eagle, the eagle faces up towards the "head" of the face side. All others, the eagle faces towards the "neck" of the face side. In other words it looks like the eagle has been flipped 180 degrees. Very confused. Any thoughts are appreciated. You're describing a 180-degree rotated die, and that's very unusual, and that's the best we can go, based on that description, alone. We can go better, though, if we can see pictures. For something like this, as Bryan said, you want to show us one side against the other side showing in a mirror; then, you want to show us both sides, straight-on. You're describing what could be a trick, too. To determine that, we'll be looking at the seams. Sometimes those are glued-in, sometimes they come apart. One thing you might check is, look at the upper, right leaf cluster (from the viewer's perspective), on the reverse. That should have a single berry, just to the right. If it has two berries, one on each side, it's not a 1921 reverse, it's the reverse of a different year. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
As I read the OP's description, it doesn't sound like a rotated die, but the eagle's head looking in the wrong direction. If that's the case, it's another (very poor) counterfeit.
Hopefully, the OP can clarify, especially with pix.
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
Quote:
As I read the OP's description, it doesn't sound like a rotated die, but the eagle's head looking in the wrong direction. I thought the same thing also when I first read it but everyone else seemed to think rotated so I figured a mirror could tell both. If the eagle is facing the wrong way you know its not real, if its just rotated there is a very slim chance its real especially it being rotated 180 degrees |
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Pillar of the Community
Mexico
1304 Posts |
I feel kinda sorry for the OP, looks like we scared em away!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1547 Posts |
The "head" of the face side is above the "neck" of the face side, guys. That's how he described that. I think he was describing a 180-degree rotation.
Did he give us the old slip, or is he still among us?
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Replies: 31 / Views: 4,330 |
Posted 04/28/2011 06:03 am
