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Here's A Grade You Don't Hear Every Day

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822 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2011  12:57 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add scubu to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
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boatman's Avatar
United States
109 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2011  1:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add boatman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What Make This Coin $40,0000.00

Boatman
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mycrob's Avatar
United States
2602 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2011  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mycrob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is the ultra rare Proof 1895 Morgan silver dollar. Approximately 800 are known to exist. It is beyond the reach of most every collector so most collectors trying to assemble the Morgan dollar set don't include the 1895 in their mind set.
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Sidekick-CA's Avatar
United States
509 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2011  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sidekick-CA to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK guess I need an education. What is it about this coin that makes it grade as PR53? It certainly does look like an easy PL but I see heavy wear on the hair starting from the ear going upwards (weak strike?). I see dings on the cheek and one on the nose and the fields are not exactly pristine. Eagle's breast also shows wear. PCGS slab so I'm assuming it's PR53. So what's the criteria I'm not looking at?
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DavidZerbato's Avatar
United States
1081 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2011  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidZerbato to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a proof coin that has been circulated. Au-53 means that there will be some wear and the field won't be pristine. Remember, proof is a manner in which a coin is minted. Technically, you could have a Pr-1 proof.
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Gyrene7483's Avatar
United States
1704 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2011  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gyrene7483 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Technically what you have is an impaired proof with the details of an "almost uncirculated" coin, hence the 53 number. Had the coin not been subject to the wear it has it would have been graded a PR-60 or higher.

ANA LM-3175
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Sidekick-CA's Avatar
United States
509 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2011  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sidekick-CA to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks guys. That clears most of it up for me. One more question. If I were to have this coin in hand and in the other hand I had a PL coin, say the same year/mm, how could I tell which was the proof and which the PL? Or is that somethig best left to experts? I guess I'm just not up on just what the characteristics are of a proof coin as opposed to PL.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2011  4:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
they have records that there were some 1895 MS coins minted but none have ever been found so they believe this was just a typo in the records. So every 1895 is a Proof coin so it has to be graded Pr (Or PF) with the technical grade behind it. I will bet anyone a dollar to a doughnut that there are more people that has Morgan Coin Albums that has the 1895 space blank than there are that has an actual Authentic1895 Morgan in that hole. Its the one coin that will always stop me from even attempting to compile that set. My only hope would be to place the reverse of another date showing in that hole because that one hole would drive me crazy after I had searched to get all the rest of the coins to fill the rest of the holes
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specksynder's Avatar
United States
1080 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2011  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add specksynder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
My only hope would be to place the reverse of another date showing in that hole because that one hole would drive me crazy after I had searched to get all the rest of the coins to fill the rest of the holes
The old "Library of Coins" albums had black cardboard filling the "ridiculous keys" like 16-D dimes and 42/41 overdate dimes. I really like that idea. It shows that the collection is complete-within-reason, but the cardboard can be punched out if you actually get your white whale. (Some Whitman folders did the same thing, but folders are EVIL.)

When I was working on my Liberty nickel set, I considered buying a particular replica nickel -- it's a 2-headed V nickel with 1895 on one side and 1896 on the other... so it is both key dates. I considered it because the 2-headed nature made it OBVIOUSLY a replica so there would never be any chance of confusion.
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Fuzzy317's Avatar
United States
14463 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2011  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fuzzy317 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
glad they are including free shipping
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Sidekick-CA's Avatar
United States
509 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2011  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sidekick-CA to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK then. Do I have this right? Every 1895 P is presumed to be proof since there has never been anything other than proofs found despite what the records say. Going from there, would you also say PCGS is making the same assumption and grading the coin accordingly as a matter of course? And not on its appearance? That sounds about right from what I've read so far.

But that still begs the question. With all the assumptions/presumptions aside, and not limiting this to just this particular year/mm Morgan, how DO they determine the difference between proof and just PL Not withstanding the grade of proofs (at least I understand that part of it now).

Sorry for all the dumb questions. Just trying to get a handle on it---- PL characteristics as opposed to Proof characteristics? DMPL, CAMEO, DPL are all ""fairly" easy to discern. Proof and PL--one in each hand seems a horse of another color. Somebody must know; afterall the TPG's "are" making those determinations.
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Typesetmaker's Avatar
United States
97 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2011  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Typesetmaker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
imagine,that 53 may very well have been found in circulation!
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2011  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
how DO they determine the difference between proof and just PL Not withstanding the grade of proofs
While I'm not very familiar with Morgans, I would guess there may be only one proof die pair for the 1895 mintage, and that date position and other die markers make ID easy?
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