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Statistical Analysis Of Key And Semi-Key Lincoln Cents

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drdave's Avatar
United States
721 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2011  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If interested, I just did a similar study for Jefferson nickels:

https://goccf.com/t/89019#735356
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KenRingold's Avatar
United States
594 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2011  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KenRingold to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Here's the 2009 breakdown:
2009 P4 -3.05
2009 D4 -2.63

I had a feeling about these and bought rolls from the Mint as soon as they were available.
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drdave's Avatar
United States
721 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2011  3:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If interested I also did a study of Indian Head cents and I compared my findings with prices:

https://goccf.com/t/89040
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drdave's Avatar
United States
721 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2011  4:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you have been following my other threads, I have been also showing a graph of how these z-values correspond to price. I've done this with the LWC as well. The graph shows the log (price) of G4 off of numismedia.com on the y-axis vs. the z-value on the x-axis. You can see a general trend of prices with rarity. I'm getting very similar results with my other studies as well.

Statistical-Analysis-Of-Key-And-Semi-Key-Lincoln-Cents
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 Posted 05/21/2011  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add onejinx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can someone explain this in simple terms, cause I'm lost as hell
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drdave's Avatar
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721 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2011  8:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, I'll try. On the graph, you find that the lower mintage coins are found on the left, higher mintage coins are found on the right. Higher priced coins are found towards the top, lower priced coins are found on the bottom. What I find is that a premium in price doesn't start until you get to a certain mintage. I was also trying to use what are established as "key" and "semi-key" coins in the Wheat series in order to predict what should be "key" and "semi-key" coins in the Memorial cent series. Better than trying to predict future prices in my crystal ball. lol
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amida17's Avatar
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4897 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2011  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DRDAVE- this is very cool! How difficult would it be for you to add the Satin finish coins from the 2005-2010 Mint sets?
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drdave's Avatar
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721 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2011  10:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
amida17, I could do it if I have the mintages, but I think it would be pretty meaningless. Like comparing apples and oranges. To make sense of the data, it should be normal circulating coins. You could do a separate analysis for the ones you mention, but the data set would be pretty small, and any statistical conclusion would be suspect.
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amida17's Avatar
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4897 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2011  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok.. That does make sense. So to include poofs and known mintage varieties would skew the data because one of the rules for your sets are that they are circulating coins? Forgive me it has been twenty years since I took statistics...lol
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biggfredd's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2011  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If anything, I would think proof would be added to the circulation figures as another grade.
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perfessor's Avatar
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927 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2011  12:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add perfessor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am new to this forum, so please humor me. I love statistics, but I must admit that I don't understand what the Z values really mean for Lincoln Memorial cents. I mean, really none of these are rare and probably never will be. The regular mintages, anyway (not the double dies, etc.). Are you trying to say that comparatively speaking to the most common dates (highest mintages) that the ones with the lowest Z values are the best buys, or the ones that should be saved? But does it really mean that they will be worth much more than a common date?
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biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2011  04:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would say "these are the coins most likely to have value in the future". The OP may be along to explain things differently.
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drdave's Avatar
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721 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2011  09:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
perfessor: when roll searching, the population of some modern coins is still very low despite high mintages. Think about this:

During the years 1909-1958, the total number of wheat cents minted for general circulation is 25,817,170,757. That's 25.8 billion coins total. The mintage of a 1909 S VDB is 484,000. In terms of population statistics, that is 1 out of every 53,000 coins from wheats would be a 1909 S VDB. (That is, if everyone through them back into the population pool, lol.)

During the years 1959-2010, the total number of modern cents minted for general circulation is 433,838,318,390. That's 433.8 billion coins total. (In 1982 alone there were 10.7 billion coins minted, which is almost half of all wheat cents!). The mintage of a 1968-S is 258,270,001 (258 million). Out of the modern cents, 1 out of every 1,680 modern cents is a 1968-S.

Now, from simple population studies, the 1909-S VDB is more rare (even in 1959) than a 1968-S is. Stating the obvious? However, let's pretend that the wheats were never minted, and the starting year for the Lincoln cents was 1959. Which coin is the rarest? 1968-S, of course, you can tell this from simply looking at the mintage numbers. What I was trying to do is to determine if whether certain coins from the modern era should/could be termed "key" or "semi-key" in terms of their relative population. I believe it's not obvious when looking at mintage numbers directly, that's why I've manipulated the numbers the way I have.

So, I guess, the lowest Z-values would be the ones to keep, but you could have done this yourself by looking at the mintage production numbers. My top 10 is no different than anyone else's since they are based strictly off of mintage numbers. What I haven't seen before (and maybe I'm just not aware of it) is a LINEAR TREND of a population statistic with price and I believe I have found it. My next step is to determine what coins are under-priced and over-priced under this analysis scheme, and have a sort of buying strategy. I'm working on that now and still want to do some more studies, but hopefully I'll post those results in another thread soon.
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biggfredd's Avatar
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 Posted 05/22/2011  12:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The biggest problem with statistics is GIGO. Pricing "should" follow mintage figures, but if the person is using raw data, and isn't aware that people stashed 31s cents, 55s cents and 50d nickels, prices on those issues won't match the data.

If the svdb cent came out later in the year instead of first, the squirrel effect would have worked against it instead of for it, and you prolly couldn't touch one today for under $5000. If you doubt this, price 83wc and 83nc nickels, then compare mintages, which are the opposite of what you'd expect from the prices.
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drdave's Avatar
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 Posted 05/22/2011  2:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add drdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good point biggfredd. I'll be the first to agree with you that mintage statistics aren't the only way to look at prices, but it is one way, and only one tool. There is an overall trend with mintage and prices, however. There are, of course, other factors, some may be more important than mintage figures. That's what makes this hobby so interesting.
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