First things first, your pics are in desperate need of cropping/resizing! If you have a Windows system, MS Paint, under "Accessories", is perfectly fine for cropping, reducing size/resolution, etc.
Now, the coin... Was this a somewhat recent purchase? Did it come from a dealer, from
ebay, or?
See pic... your piece is a perfect match to a piece in a Ponterio auction from a little while back (FYI, it was advertised as a "2 over 1" overdate). This, of course, is curious. The first thing you learn about cobs is that if you encounter two or more that are exactly alike in the stamped detail they display and identical/semi-identical in shape, they're examples of a fake. However, in comparing the Ponterio photos (oddly overexposed though they are) to your photos, I DON'T believe these are two identical "littermate" fakes; rather, I think this is actually the same exact coin. The toning pattern appears to be EXACTLY the same (esp. the contrast between the raised vs. protected areas in/around the shield), which would be hard to replicate exactly on two separate pieces. Additionally, while two copies from a good cast/mold would display all the same major marks, indents, etc., I don't see a single noticeable mark in the Ponterio photos that isn't in your photos, and vice versa. You would think two littermates that have lived apart for some time would have picked up SOME unique mark or tick... So, I think yours IS the piece from the Ponterio auction, though w/o seeing it in hand, I can't totally rule out that we're dealing with (2) remarkably identical fakes.
Now, the coin itself is not helping matters... it frankly just doesn't scream "no chance that's fake". The surfaces have something of a odd "look" (obv doubling aside, which is not unusual), though that can be said about many genuine cobs... and that toning is a bit strange. Additionally, these mid-1600's dates are THE main target of the Asian counterfeiters, who often doctor their fakes with artificial toning (not terribly dissimilar in appearance to your coin's toning) to make them look authentic and/or salvaged.
You mentioned it being slightly under full prescribed weight at 25.4g... That's not a huge tell either way, as it certainly could have been clipped at some point long ago, plus there is some slight surface roughness going on. The Specific Gravity test "swamperbob" also proposes on here would at least darn it if the metal wasn't close to 93% silver... However, keep in mind cobs weren't always alloyed perfectly so the tolerance may be a bit wider than usual. Also, it always could be a fake made w/correct silver content, so a "good" figure wouldn't prove that's it's authentic.
If nothing else, Ponterio is of course a very well-respected outfit, and Spanish colonial is a specialty of theirs. This coin was part of an auction of a pretty extensive date run of Mexico 8R cobs, incl. many fairly scarce pieces, which were clearly predominantly from one collection... And actually, almost all of the ones from this auction that didn't sell (as the starting prices were fairly strong) just appeared in another major auction (from a different, also well-respected auctioneer). Can't say for certain that this coin wasn't just a random straggler consignment, but chances are that it WAS part of that same collection.
Posted 06/08/2011 3:51 pm
