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 Replies: 18 / Views: 5,333 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
I got an ASE recently from one of these mid range grading companies, and every one here said it was not one of the more elite companies. I contacted the dealer, asked him a question or two and he was real cool, never tried to play it like it was elite. I asked him this.... "Quick question, I noticed those two Peace dollars 1922D and 1923D brought huge money, 5 and 6 hundred, can you tell what makes them so special or rare? I know this grading company is not one of the elite so to speak, but your pictures and products are great, you obviously run a 1st class operation, and I saw many of your products getting much attention, and that tells me all I need to know for future re-sale one day...." He replied.... "Good afternoon Kevin, Thank you for your email and your business. Those coins did go for quite a bit. We've sold them for $75 and we've sold them for $750... ups and downs of ebay. I understand your concern. We use a small grading company out of Pennsylvania. There are literally hundreds of grading companies out there and all have their own standards of grading. For example, PCGS might grade a coin MS61 and NGC might grade that exact same coin a 62. Then ICG or ANACS would be even more liberal and give it a 63 or 64. The company we use is pretty liberal. They may not grade to PCGS standards, but then you're not paying PCGS prices. I think you paid about $50 for your coin and the going rate for those PCGS coins is about $400. The 1923-D sold for about $400 and the going rate for those PCGS coins is about $10,000. Then you also have to remember there are PCGS people, NGC people, people who like raw ungraded coins, investors who just want them for bullion, people who really just like to look at them and don't care about grading companies, etc. PCGS people think that everybody else is wrong. It's like Republicans and Democrats... there will never be any compromise. We offer beautiful collectible coins at affordable prices so everybody can collect coins and make sound investments. I hope this helps. Just being honest. If you are unhappy with your coins you are more than welcome to return them for a full refund including shipping both ways($5 return shipping). We want you to be happy... I think you will be. If you have any further questions, comments, and/or concerns, please don't hesitate to ask. Have a wonderful day Kevin. Dennis at SDC" I like what he said about the Republicans and Democrats, I can so relate to that.... Anyhow the coin showed up today, and everything was as I would hope it to be, the coin is great. I like the sealing slab of this company, and they use a white border around the coins as well. I left SDC as real strong feedback as I always do if I get the product and service as I did above. Is it really an MS-70, probably not? But I did compare it to my MS-69 ASE, and it does stand out a bit, as the image seems more raised and I can't find a flaw with the naked eye. I imagine even though this is not a first strike, that is the theory behind it, that the press looses its detail in time, so older art prints for example are not worth as much as the first ones printed. And I imagine same with coin mints, any thoughts on that? In the end, I would buy from this dealer and company again, as it just is what it is, not the best, but probably not the worst. And in the end, you probably get what you pay for, and 53 total was not to bad.... Edited by Silverhawk74
07/01/2011 02:23 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
If similarly graded coins bring $75-750, the TPG is useless, and I souldn't even trust their authentication. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4618 Posts |
I've been reading about the term "First Strike" and it looks as if it means nothing. The mint may release coins produced much later in the minting process first, and release the true first strikes much later. As I understand it, the new labels on the slabs with be "Early Release."
Did anyone else hear about this or did I have a weird dream about coins again?
ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!! 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1064 Posts |
Quote:
The 1923-D sold for about $400 and the going rate for those PCGS coins is about $10,000. Did I read that correctly? Is he saying that there could be that much difference in value for the same coin, graded by his TPG vs PCGS? Wow! |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3670 Posts |
I will agree Fred that did seem fishy as 75 to 750 is some gap, considering I don't figure the majority of ebay buyers to be the wisest. But come on they know if something is worth 75 or 750 dollars.... And yes Jack, he was saying his Peace dollar brought about four hundred, and he is saying the elite grading company version would be 10 grand, can anyone cofirm that as being accurate? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
There are literally hundreds of grading companies out there and all have their own standards of grading. After reading that quote, I would discount everything else stated by that dealer. There are not "hundreds of grading companies", not even close. There may be hundreds of unethical dealers entombing their own inventory in clamshell plastic with inflated grades and problems galore but that does not make them a TPG, just a dealer peddling a big ol' heaping helping of conflict on interest. The only legit US TPGs currently in business would be PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, and SEGS. Some would not include SEGS due to their lesser reputation but they do have known experts on staff and do accept public submissions, two hallmarks of a TPG. Quote:he was saying his Peace dollar brought about four hundred, and he is saying the elite grading company version would be 10 grand, can anyone cofirm that as being accurate? Another wildly exaggerated claim, there is no way those two coins have the exact same grade with that kind of price disparity. Sounds like this guy would be right at home on a used car lot, complete with oil puddles and duct tape holding the bumper on the car... just as good a new Cadillac but for 1/10 the price! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Thanks Bio and Yokozuna, some great info there from both as well, good to know about the recognized grading company's and the first strikes.... I will be much more cautious on which grading company I buy in the future.... Considering the price of silver when I bought it, say 35 to 36 an oz., it still worked out good for me, and compared to all my other graded ASE coins all from NGC it really stands out as the most detailed and nicest overall coin to my amateur eye anyway. I also have a graded Britannia from PCGS MS-69 Britannia, good to know its grade is respected.... Edited by Silverhawk74
07/01/2011 3:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote:...compared to all my other graded ASE coins all from NGC it really stands out as the most detailed and nicest overall coin to my amateur eye anyway. Which is exactly why I am not into graded coins and never will be. That part of coin collecting is one where you can do well IF you know a LOT about coins. If you don't, then you will not do so well. In this, it is a bit like fishing... where 5% of the fishermen catch 95% of the fish... BECAUSE THEY KNOW HOW!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Edited by Silverhawk74
07/02/2011 12:13 am
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Valued Member
175 Posts |
It looks like the fish in the first picture is eating your hand lol
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Valued Member
United States
299 Posts |
Bio
"After reading that quote, I would discount everything else stated by that dealer."
My thoughts exactly. I don't know how the guy can sleep at night after all the kee-rap he politely worded into that reply. I sum up all that he said as, "I am a con artist and you are a fool if you believe me"
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New Member
United States
13 Posts |
Well I cant speak for NGC or PCGS but I have sent morgans to ANACS because they will VAM them for you, I should be happy about the grades they assign them, but in my eye they come back over graded.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2120 Posts |
Personally, I know that NGC/PCGS/ANACS are top. But I tend to like buying ICG Slabs.
"What?!?! They are horrible, they are usually off by at least a couple grades!"
Yea, you're right, they usually are. I bank on the times that they aren't. Too many people / dealers get an ICG slab and immediately discount it down 2-3 grades with out really thinking about 'what does this COIN grade'. I've gone to shows where dealers have All their nice PCGS/NGC/ANACS slabs out on display and have all the ICG ones behind the counter or in a box.
They are usually so happy when I start pulling them out that when I ask "hey, you've got these marked at 100$ total, will you do $80?" that they just say yes with out really thinking about it.
I can't count the number of times I've picked up coins that we're marked as MS65/64 and got them for MS62/63 prices. This isn't just on $50> coins, I picked up an MS61 Bust dime for AU money that was definitely MS, maybe even MS62.
Now, I'm not saying they were all the sharpest dealers, but a few of them have been around the biz a while.
Point is, it comes back to the common saying around this forum...
Buy the coin, not the holder.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
First I want to say your seller is a silver tongued rascal. there is no right or wrong answer to this question. If its not PCGS,NGC or ANACS you should know how to grade yourself and bid as if those coins in the other grading companies slabs are raw (Ungraded) so you can get your money back if sold just on the merits of the coin in the plastic. The only real difference is PCGS and the others were made to be traded sight unseen and the others will never be traded by anyone with knowledge of coins sight unseen because just going by ANA standards (not PCGS standards as your seller talks about) Those other companies that call a coin MS-6 may actually be a AU-58 by ANA standards and you would never be able to send those coins in to these bottom tier slabbers for guarantee of grade as you can with the big 3 I mentioned above. The bottom tiered have their place and benefit for those that can grade but its not something I would ever advise for the new collector because they will end up with a million dollar collection that is actually worth a thousand dollars when going by the coins merits and what the grade should have been Now about the fish, one of my best friends father used to be a guide at Santee Cooper in SC and I have seen some HUGE catfish come out of that body of water. My buddy was about 6 foot tall and there was one he held straight out (so about shoulder high) and the tail drug the ground and weighed about 73lbs. We were 15 at the time so a 73lb cat fish caught by a 15 year old was pretty huge even though it wasnt a record caught there. I have heard of 90-100lb fish coming from there now and I don't doubt it one bit. Nothing like this 646lb fresh water cat fish but still a big fish in its own right  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
You guys are tough, it was a BEAUTIFUL ASE for 53 dollars, many a folk have bought them for more than that minus a slab.... He does offer returns no questions asked, and he did say the company is "pretty liberal". Perhaps some of his statements were un-researched/un-educated to the hobby, but I have dealt with much larger JACK-WAGONS than this fellow I can assure you in another collecting genre, never in silver or gold coins.... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Bryan, that is a Mekong catfish, via Vietnam and Cambodia. They don't each meat believe it or not, so they are usually caught in nets or snagged. The largest predator cats I know of, Amazon river, one species starts with a P, yellow and huge 600 plus sometimes, and the red tails. Jeremy Wade on that monster fish show is the true master, as he will set for days for like Wels cats (another true predator known to eat small pets and children and older people, mostly found in Spain, Russia, and France) a trait one must have to catch fish this size, patience the number one thing.... Great story from the legendary Santee Cooper, I have heard much stories form that body of water. I actually used to post on a fishing board years back when I caught most of those cats, 2000-2005 as I have been working and playing ice hockey which has consumed much of my time over the last 6 years. Anyhow, on that board BOC (brotherhood of catfish), they had an under water camera set up down by the dam operating on Santee Cooper, and you could watch the big cats swim by live, lol.... By the way Bryan, the World record channel cat is 52 pounds caught on Santee Cooper (channel cats don't get as big as blue cats and flatheads down south, but they do up north in the Red river, say 35 to 40 pounds, no comp from the other two), caught out of Santee Cooper way back in either 50's or 60's, and the current Flathead world record is 123 pounds caught on a Zebco 12 pound test (they say), below a Dam in K.C. Missouri. The world record blue keeps changing, as I have seen it go from 112 pounds (Cumberland gap just north of me), to 121 pounds on lake Texoma (huge Oklahoma/Texas border lake), to 124 pounds from the Mississippi and now it is like over 132 pounds, again the Mississippi river.... My largest Flathead is about 60 pounds, and my largest blue cat is pictured above, the one with my big grin and I have it in a head lock, and there is another side shot of it as well, and it weighed 55 pounds. I have caught countless 20 to 40 pounder, mostly all from the bank, between 11 and 3 in the morning.... One day I would like to join the 100 pound freshwater club.... Edited by Silverhawk74
07/04/2011 4:36 pm
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Replies: 18 / Views: 5,333 |
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Posted 07/01/2011 08:54 am
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